#114 INSPIRATION

To inspire someone with the urge, confidence, or ability to do or feel something, particularly regarding creative effort or motivation. It evolves acting as a catalyst that sparks action, evokes emotion, or breathes new life and purpose into an idea. What or who has been your most inspirational person or experience.

Transcript

Welcome And Why We Gather

SPEAKER_07 0:04

Um, if you're listening on a device, you've joined us at the gathering. Welcome. And um this is for people that are interested in enlarging their scope, their thinking, their actions. And uh a lot of us are in recovery, and a number of us are not. We're in uh 59 cities, uh 59 countries and territories, and we're in over 900 cities. So coming up on 12,000 downloads. So if you like it, stick around, come back. And if you're uh if you look at the description, there's a place where you can become a supporter if you so desire for as little as $3 a month, which helps the operation. So there we go. I'm Roger. I am uh of the alcoholic variety. I'm been sober since October 11, 1978, which is uh 47 years past when I was supposed to be dead. So it's pretty impressive to me. Um not to everyone, but to me, it it stands out as I'm getting older. It's like, how did this happen?

Sponsorship As Living Inspiration

SPEAKER_07 1:18

So I was thinking a lot of times when we do this, I just do a theme that's been showing up for the week. And sponsorship has been really heavy. If you're not in AA or recovery, you think of it in terms of mentorship. It could be a teacher, it could be a coach, it could be a family member, it could be um clergy, it could be anyone that inspires you along the way. So the uh idea of inspiration, I've been thinking about because a lot of conversations have been coming around death, and the idea of loss is a big deal in this process. So what I found was for me, um we live eternally in each other. The people that inspired me, the people that moved me, the people that helped me along the way in my life, I hear them all the time coming out of my word, coming out of my mouth. So did they did they die? Their body died for sure. But the relationship hasn't died. The relationship is still there. And so in that sense, um, there is no loss and there is no death. But the uh the thing I was thinking about was in inspiration, inspire, meaning, here's the definition means to fulfill someone with the urge, confidence, or ability to do or feel something, particularly regarding creative effort or motivation. It involves acting as a catalyst that sparks action, evokes emotion, or breathes new life into purpose, into an idea. When you think about your sponsorship of being sponsored or being sponsored by someone or sponsoring someone, that's all inspiration. It's not scripted, it's not um preloaded or predetermined. It's it's the conversation we have. The guy calls me and uh and we're gonna have a conversation. I have no idea what it is. So my my idea, I just pray before I start my mouth moving. But the uh the other thing I have is I have a mentor, a partner, a sponsor that we we kind of co-sponsor each other. He's 33 years sober, and and we spend three hours a week together debriefing what's going on. It's not, I don't know, I don't need someone to help me with the steps. I need I need someone to help me see with my bullshit. And I need accountability, and that never changes. It never changes. And uh so we have that relationship. He'll run his stuff by me, I'll run my stuff by him, and we'll see if we need to poke some holes in it. So our 11th step says we're supposed to try and inspire ourselves in the morning with prayer meditation, with reading. Find something inspiring to lift your thinking, to lift your thinking. And when your thinking is of a higher nature, your actions will also be of a higher nature. And when you're thinking your actions are of a higher nature, your consequences are going to be of a higher nature. Consequences are just the output of my thinking and my actions, right? They can be pleasant consequences, neutral consequences, negative consequences, but we're generating consequences all the time. So you might hear, you might get it. You might have an inspirational moment out of a book, a poem, a piece of music, a billboard, a bumper sticker. You overhear a conversation or a conversation you have with someone, whatever it is that moves me in an action, internal first, and then external, the manifestation of the internal. So it's the birth of an idea or concept that I can use to

The Beast And Dropping Good Bad

SPEAKER_07 5:41

unpiece the puzzle, the puzzle that is that is life, the puzzle that is life. And so part of this, part of this process is I've got to get out of the labeling business. You know, the you know me enough to know when I use the beast, what I'm talking about. But when something happens in life, the beast is the first to respond. And it's always, oh shit, we got a problem. Do we? The beast says we have a problem, but do I really have a problem? So I have learned, you have learned, we have learned to label this stuff from the earliest ages. This is a good thing, this is a bad thing. This is called dualism. This is a good thing, this is a bad thing. Is it what if it could just be a thing? And I don't have to label it as good or bad, then I can work with it from a neutral position, right? But if I'm labeling good or bad, I'm always going to be looking for the good, and the beast is always gonna be fighting the bad. It's just that simple. So this idea of inspiration, when I think back, I'm 77, and I was reflecting on this inspiration

Mentors Stories That Still Live

SPEAKER_07 6:55

thing. And when I was uh 16, I was a budding hippie, and I had a grandpa living in a house with us who hated hippies, and he called me the fucking hippie. And my uncle Ir and Jenny would come over and visit on Sundays because Sunday's visiting day. These were all Norwegian imports to our country. They came in the early 1900s, and Jenny was the stereotypical Norwegian Lutheran, about as round as she was tall, and a very sweet, sweet lady. So they'd come over, and my uncle Einer and grandpa would be talking and having a whiskey, and Jenny would be sitting in the living room with me, and she'd go, Oh, Rajard, you have such beautiful hair. And I had real long hair, yeah. And uh she said, May I brush it? And so all the time they were talking, she'd be brushing my hair. And I've never forgotten how it felt because she saw me. She didn't see the hair, she wasn't looking at the outside, she was looking at the inside. So that's an example. Um my dad was an example in another way. The two the two most influential men in my life to date have been my dad and Henry, my stepson, who has downs in autism. Can't talk right. Um, those two guys taught me more because they're nonverbal. They taught me with their actions. Henry taught me about faith. Like he'd wake up in the morning and I'd wake him up by singing to him or rubbing his back, and he'd he'd walk into the bathroom where there'd be a hot tub of water waiting for his morning bath. And we was done with that, he'd throw the water out. So we'd come and get him, dry him off, dress him, and he'd go downstairs. And of course, his breakfast is there because he expected it to be there, because he had faith that it would be there. And then we'd walk him out to his para in the bus. And it just went on like that. He just trusted that he'd be taken care of. And he had no resentment. He had no resentment at all. And my old man, the model for him was what would I do, not what I say. Because he wasn't verbal. He wasn't a verbal guy, but but he inspired me with the demonstration of his change. People are much more interested in our demonstration than our luxury and then talking and our words. You demonstrate that you've changed me. You know, and doctors have been in Silkworth describing Bill in three paragraphs. Patient will have come to regard as hopeless. Then the second paragraph is appears to have recovered. He recovered. He ran in some goofballs and he seems to have recovered. And the third paragraph is you can rely absolutely on anything he says about himself. That's a description of transformation. Every one of us has that story. Some more than others, but I was supposed to be dead at 30. I'm not making that up. That was the doctor's opinion. I'm sitting in the office, I'm 28 years old or so, and I've got kidney and liver damage, I'm bleeding internally, and I don't have a problem. I'm just there trying to get a prescription for my backache. And he he informed me after some lab work and blood work that whatever I was doing in the quantities that I wasn't insisting I was doing it in was killing me. And if I kept going the way I was going, I had probably 12 to 18 months before I died, my major organ failure, kidney or liver, right? So there were there's always people along the way. You know, when I hear people share in my meeting and stuff, they don't talk about the help they've had. They talk about where they're at and what their experience is. But rarely do they say, this guy, this woman, this man, this woman came into my life and it changed my life. Because we all need that. We all need someone when we're when we're when we're in a meeting. We hear someone talking, and inside you're going, yeah, that's it, that's it, that's the truth. That's the divinity in that person coming through him, activating the divinity in me. And I recognize this truth because it's universal in all of us. And by that I mean, you know, when when we we talk about poor behavior, you always knew it was poor behavior. You always knew your body told you it was not a good thing to do. Mine did. A little tweak in the stomach, a little hesitation with a voice. I don't think this is a good idea.

SPEAKER_05 12:11

But because we got a guy.

SPEAKER_07 12:15

Someone's got an open mic.

SPEAKER_05 12:21

Anyway, because of I forgot what I was saying now.

SPEAKER_07 12:29

Distraction. Because the truth is universal. We all know the truth. We're born with the truth. We all know what love feels like. We all know what poor behavior being abused feels like. We all know the difference between right and wrong. We just also have the ability to choose differently if we so desire. Because we have free will. So we can choose to do something that's detrimental to us. I'll pay the bill later, right? If there's a bill to pay. You know, we used to laugh about uh drinking, and guys, we all were alcoholics, and some professed and some didn't, but um we'd laugh. This is probably gonna kill us about 10 years early. But I thought if I could feel this good for until I die, that'd be okay. I'd will get 10 years, not a problem, right? All those guys are dead. I'm the only one that made it around the corner. How do you do that? You know, and I met I met uh one of my early mentors, Don Pritz. Got sober, he was a drug addict, alcoholic, got sober in federal prison. And the guy that was his sponsor said, My guys don't relapse. If you relapse in here, you're gonna fall off the tier. Because he was doing two life terms, he wasn't going anywhere. And Don gave me a really great definition of honesty. The absence of any intention to deceive. And the caveat is honesty without compassion is brutality. He gave me that, and that sat in me. That's been a guiding idea, a light, if you will, a North Star for me, because it there's no wiggle room in it. And I'm a guy that will look for the wiggle room. You say there's two options, I say, well, there's got to be a 2.5 or a 3 or a 4 somewhere. So I don't inspire anyone. The divinity in me activates the divinity in you. But that can't happen unless we have something to share and we're willing to share it, which comes into the other aspect of this, which is self-sacrifice. You guys are giving up your Wednesday night. We're never gonna get this time back. I'm giving you my Wednesday night. I'm not getting this time back. So I would like it to count. I would like it to mean something. I would like to help if I can. I would like to be helped if I can be helped. I'd like to be lifted up by your testimony. Um because that's all we're doing here, is we're throwing some ideas out and we're talking about what our experience is with those ideas. And because there's almost 12,000 downloads, people are listening to what you're saying. People are listening to what we're saying, they're listening to the conversation. It's not one person, it's it's the group, it's the energy and the wisdom of the group. So I've laid some groundwork here.

Opening The Floor For Turning Points

SPEAKER_07 15:38

So I would like you to take turns sharing a moment, an event, a person that changed the direction of your life, that inspired you to something different or showed you there was a better way, that kind of thing, right? And then maybe also who's been the most inspirational person in your life? So those two things. Share a moment that changed the way you're seeing things, and share, if you will, if if you choose to, the most inspirational person you've had in your existence, your life. There might be many of them. There might be many of them. There have been many of them for me. So there it is, floor's open. Go ahead. Hallelujah, as Henry would say. Hallelujah, buddy.

SPEAKER_05 16:47

Okay, Roger, robot. Okay.

Love Honesty And Action Over Thoughts

SPEAKER_09 16:52

I'm a big alcohol variety too. There's three people that uh when you explain what you were thinking about, the first uh person that occurred uh what happened to me when I was in a treatment center. The thing that he said is his definition of love. To me, it was a hop in the sack. That's love. And he broke it down and no, that's not that's not that that happens to be a physical part of if you want to call it love, but it's not necessarily love. I'd not heard that before. My mind was too involved with bedrooms and things. The other person uh that got my attention was a guy that made contact with me while I was in treatment because I had written a letter to an AA group, which we were required to do. And there were three people that responded to this. And the one that responded, one of them that responded to me had been in treatment 23 times. And that caught my attention only because what's wrong with this guy? What did he do that was wrong? He must know every lie in the book. But he would share things with me, and he would say to me after he got to know me a little bit, this is what you've got to do. And a couple of things where you got to go to meetings and you have to talk, uh, because we've been giving that given this uh this miracle for free. And we need to make sure that we share at least as much as we learn. The third one happened to be a guy that I worked with. He was also a guy I drank with, and we drank a lot. He went to treatment before I did, and he was the one that I went to one day while I was in the office and said, I think I need help. I had never said those words to anybody in my life before, and he knew exactly what I was talking about. Sometime later, after treatment, and he would see me, you know, Monday through Friday, because he happened to be the supervisor also where I worked and where he worked. One of the things that he caught on to what was going on with me, I'm supposed to be this deep thinker. And he said to me, and I had to write it down, and I did that day. He says, You can't think your way into sobriety. You gotta do something, you gotta change your behavior in order to get sober. And I'd never heard that before. Or if I had, it went out one ear, went in one ear and out the other. But those were three instances that that really I needed to hear it when I needed to hear it. Uh, and to this day I remember them because obviously it made a real impression on me. And as I guess I look at it, that's obviously come at a time when I really needed to hear that. So, as far as a person, um, I there's three there that uh that I have said thank you to more than once uh for how they helped me uh and continue to to this day because I pass it on. Um two of them are dead. Uh so it goes back to what you say, Roger. Uh their story, I guess when I think about it, me repeating it, their story still lives through me. Exactly. Because it helps me.

SPEAKER_07 21:03

Exactly. And it helps the people in here.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 21:06

You know, you're talking about love. There's been millions, probably, books, songs, poems written about love. And one of the definitions I got from somewhere, I don't know where, is a vivid sense of goodwill toward all. And that kind of clears the motives up, you know.

SPEAKER_09 21:26

My 10-year-old son, when I was in treatment, told me what his definition of love was, and he said, Dad, he said it's heartfelt. And that was it.

SPEAKER_07 21:39

Yeah, I got a little uh a little thing by Thomas Keene within my one of my daily practices. It's called the imitation from God. The basic disposition in the spiritual journey is the capacity to accept all reality, God, ourselves. Other people and all creation as they are. It's humbling to be so human.

SPEAKER_05 22:16

We suppose to be humble. Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 22:35

As always, these are interesting questions. I hope I share something that's that's impactful. But two two things, two things came to mind about um uh one was um I was staying with my grandparents. My family was going on vacation, but I had to stay for practice in the summer and I didn't go with them. I stayed at my grandgrandparents, and then I remember in the evening, my grandmother would come in and she'd bless me with holy water and um say a little prayer over me. And then she'd come and wake me up in the morning and do the same thing. I'm like, and and I've never ever forgotten that I was probably sick, I was 16 years old. And actually, a very influential guy in my life was actually a coach at the time, and he uh was my basketball coach in high school, and he really sat me down, talked about whatever the birds and the bees, and what I wasn't even, but he he really talked to me about what my life could be, and I really got it. It didn't get it right at the moment, but I got it years later. That was the first person I ever really, other than my parents, that really loved me and that stuck with me, you know, for you know, and now it's a long time, 60 years later. And back to um, you know, it's it it it comes up, but I I I still struggling from not struggling, but thinking about, you know, how do I deal with pain? I'm still dealing with that from a couple of weeks ago. But the question with respect to who's the most influential person in my life, and maybe it's a lack of humility, not a whole lot are really showing up. And I'm like, well, that's maybe being very selfish or egotistical on my part, but um but there's been many. One is a very dear friend Angela, who was in the program, um, who's AA in Vegas, very involved. And he just shared with me, never was influential, and I'd be drinking all the time, and never said, Hey, you need to do anything, and but invited me, would always go to meetings if I'd be out there. He was very involved in Vegas, and I'd I'd I'd go visit him out there, or he'd come visit me. I'd always go to meetings with him. Never was never was judgmental to say, Hey, you you probably have a problem.

SPEAKER_07 24:41

You know, you might get more of these meetings if you were sober.

SPEAKER_06 24:48

Yeah, yeah. So that's yeah, that's yeah. So I'm really I'm I've had a lot of people that influenced me in my life. So I'm grateful.

SPEAKER_07 24:59

I've got to you know, like you were talking about just down, Tom, just there's probably hundreds of times that I had a uh chance encounter with someone or overheard a conversation that had a seed of truth that caught my attention and got planted in me. And it might have taken months or years for it to bloom, but all of this stuff that I got was given to me by other people, you know, and the only reason it it's mine now is because I put it, I implemented it, and I now I have an experience, so now I have ownership of it. Before that, you're just in theoretical territory.

SPEAKER_05 25:46

Angels have many different forms.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Okay.

Shame And Healing After Loss

SPEAKER_03 26:14

Um yeah, good topic, Roger. Uh yeah, and sponsorship and inspiration. I mean, for me, the easy one to say the first person who really inspired me was my dad, and uh so looked up to him, so you know, wanted to be like him. And uh it's ironic where you know he died what three years before I got sober. And those last years, you know, knowing this person that I looked up to, what I thought about myself, that shame just each time I kind of put him a peg higher, I put myself a peg lower until I got really low in in my own eyes, you know, that shame and drinking and just what would he? And then he died. And it's like, what would he think? You know, I must be so disappointed. That idea that I know now is not is not true. Um, you know, and you talked about planting the seed, you know, in the ground. And I in in good news, bad news, who's to say? I would have said it was such bad news, you know, end of my drinking, and it's uh going to treatment, you know. Oh, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. What have I done with my life? You know, those years of shame, Roger, was like the soil was being prepared for then I come across and meet you, which is, you know, aside from my dad, the most inspirational person in my life and laid the groundwork for everything that's been the last eight years. You know, it was eight years ago today was the last time I drank. Is it your first time? Tomorrow, tomorrow is, you know, so it's today, Roger. And I walked, I remember I waited until the grocery store opened and walked there with Victoria and a stroller, saying, Lee, I'm gonna take her for a walk. The shame with, you know, I'll take a bottle of vodka and a razor blade and a shaving cream to make it look like I wasn't there just to buy booze, you know, and and uh what life looks like today versus then is just um it's I mean, it's hard to believe that it's the same thing. And it's those ideas, you know, that you put out there that uh planting those seeds, you know, people get, I'm sure I would imagine they get tired of me saying, Well, Roger's this, and Roger said that, and this idea I heard from Roger, which you then shared. A lot of those you probably got from Don. You know, some of them there may be Paul, your kind of co-sponsor, which who planted a lot for me too. But it's um, you know, so it's a cool deal. And I know now it's a full circle thing with my dad. Like, I know with absolute certainty in my heart, like how proud he is and how proud he always was, and that like that never went away. That was just my BS with it. Um, and it and it uh fills me with a lot of peace, you know. So appreciate always gratitude towards you and your mentors who planted those seeds for you, too. So thanks.

SPEAKER_07 29:12

And we pass it on. Um, Andy, share. I remember very vividly walking through the parking lot with you, and you had so much guilt about your dad not being able to see you get well. You remember the sign? Do you remember the sign we said in the parking lot? I mean, actually, it's right uh it's right here.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

That uh that car, if you can see it, the license plate. I mean, it was my dad's initials. That was at Hazelden saying how disappointed I was, how he would be, and it's a uh, you know, walking in the parking lot and it's a Tesla with uh the initials AEH, which was my dad's initials. And that was you know what I've come to believe now, Roger, is that those signs have been there my whole life. They're there every moment. Now the channel is open to receive them, and even better, I don't need to see that the initials anymore to know and feel like with absolute certainty that he's like right here with me. Yeah. Um really special.

SPEAKER_07 30:14

There's a way that death is described, which is you have just moved beyond my hearing and my sight. You're just in another dimension, but you're not gone. And that sense, you know. I have that with my dad too. It's just like constant companion. It's like it can turn over, I feel his energy all the time because that's what he put into me. He put some things that we're too helpful in, too. But that's okay. Well, go ahead, Justin. Thanks, Andy.

Honesty Fear And Daily Contact

SPEAKER_01 30:49

All right, yeah, uh, this is a great, great topic. Um and percolating a lot, and I had to sit and think about that. There's there's there's a few people, but uh the first two it would be my grandfather from Ukraine, who survived the the Russians first and then the a Nazi war camp, and then came here um with nothing. Um that instilled something into me. I don't know, uh perseverance or something. Um, and then my father, uh in the in the material world, I should say, my father, for his hard work and his love towards his family. Um, recovery-wise, and this is gonna sound like some ass kissing here, guys. Um, but Roger happens to be my sponsor. So in 2012, the first time I went to the retreat, I was there and my head was just all over. Um I had black eyes, I had a bust-up shoulder, I was facing felony charges for uh fighting with cops, I bit a cop, all these things. And you know, I I just remember we started reading the big book, and I have to know what the big book is because through my illustrious time in junior high and high school, I was always in the drug office, and um my father he sobered up and he went to AA for a couple years, but that and that's my only thing. Um, and then I remember we were downstairs in the old part where actually we're used to do the gathering, you know, and I see this guy kind of walking back and forth, walking back and forth, and he starts sharing his story. And it's the first time that I connected on this. Like this guy knows what he's talking about. I I mean, like, I felt like I was walking in his skin the way he was explaining, and that's obviously Roger. Um and so lo and behold, that was 2012. And the one thing I've always done is I I I have I'm great at blowing up my life and going and getting sober, and I'm also great at self-sponsoring, which I thought is the best thing to do. Go get healthy, go to one of these treatments. I've been to every treatment there is. Um, they're probably tired of me, but I get healthy, um, I get a little traction, I would work with somebody. And the one thing I figured out is I a lot of times what I would do is I would work with someone that I thought I could manipulate and get my way. But there was always one that I would always go back to, and his name was and we get close enough, and the beast would come in and I would get really scared. Um, and I'll just share a little real quick here. Um, I'm on a journey now that I I can't explain, I can't explain, I can't deny the results of what is happening. It's just miraculous to me. And there's something that's different. And whenever I talk with Roger, we have just this open conversation. He never tells me what to do, which I love. Um, and he shares experience and it and there's this there's this energy. Well, a couple weeks ago, I was feeling pretty good, and the beast said, time to put the brakes on here. So he implanted some fear because fear and shame are what always takes me down. I had some stuff going on at work, and I lamped onto that, and the old self-will comes back in. I can do this, just knuckle down. And what I did was I just slowly pulled away within within a week. I I think I talked to Roger one, called me on a Saturday morning. Yes, yes, me, I was doing the course. I said, I'm fine. The the standard answer, I'm fine. And then it just started to pour out and he broke through. And what in what was I remember after that conversation going, Oh, yeah, I thought that was gonna go way different. I thought he was gonna yell at me. I thought I, you know, I'm not doing the right thing. And these are all the fears that the beef has planted in me. So come Monday night, he we're after the meeting, and he just we we're after the meeting, we're talking, and he he just said, I'm not calling you out, but I can feel you pulling away. And I don't know what happened, but something miraculous literally happened. A honest answer came out of me. I'm getting squirrely, and and the difference is um, we've got a little more structure and the more calling. And the proof is out in the pudding here, you know, when I talk to him every day and when I text him every day, there's something that happens. So Roger for me and Adam, and again, it sounds like them kissing butt here, but he's been my North Star through this whole thing. He's been that he is the conduit to God for me. So, I mean, I I wouldn't be here without him. I I just I I know it. So without trying to sound like a total kiss ass there, but that that's my experience. So put that at pass.

SPEAKER_07 36:30

You know, to your point, when a guy comes into my life, my my little bubble, my sphere, I pay attention to that because people don't ever find me by accident. And I've been dancing with Justin for 14 years. When he was teachable, I give him a little spoonful and then he'd go out and run away. And but the thing that's different, and I think you'll concur, the thing that's different is he finally got honest. Finally got honest about what he was doing and the double life he was living and all that, and that truth liberates him. And so it's a it's a beautiful thing. And he'll tell you the people are noticing around him, his parents are noticing, they're grateful because he's got a brother that's out making a mess of his life, and it just it's just a beautiful thing, and it's not an accident. It's not an accident, but it it happens when it's time for it to happen. And that's what we mean by we don't uh we don't abandon our wounded, we don't shoot our wounded, we just you know just keep praying for that son of a bitch. Who else?

Stories As Medicine For Recovery

SPEAKER_10 37:52

Hi, I'm Ali. Hi, Ali. Hi, yeah, not don't get too big headed about this, Roger. But um uh I um well I it's I had like a five my second math. Um I have the list of people um who uh inspire me and well, just when it comes to recovery, yeah, when I got out of the retreat in 2011, I had the CDs um of the big book that Roger, you read, and I'd seen you there. And I had just hyped listening to them. Um I downloaded them and um I just needed it and I hyped a lot and just needed that constant reaffirmation and sort of explanation and over and over and over again and just to get me it's to get through my thick skin. So um it was um incredibly impactful. Of course, it took me three years ago, it's over, but um, it was just that really um it was just a time of me hiking, listening. Um, and at some point I realized recovery I would knew more about like other people's stories than my own, because I'd be, you know, you hear the anecdotes, but obviously been incredibly impactful. Um and um also um my brother who dropped me off at the retreat, um, but um uh it's funny, he's taught he's been inspiring in two ways. Um one is what happens when you don't take care of your finances, um, but in the other way, about uh he's so generous and just so how can I help? What can I do? And he really means it. There's, you know, um, he is um dealt with cancer, all these things, and just an attitude of a good attitude, a good perspective in terms of like, you know, my dad just called, we're gonna be working the problem, you know, we're we're just getting through this, it's the solution. Um, and along with him and my dad, who my dad showed me um just inspired me, like he his actions, he did it. He showed up, he did it. He wasn't talking about doing things, he actually did them. And that strength to me has always been like the sort of uh benchmark for people and uh you know, showing up that they don't, the people who don't need to um let you know all that they're doing, et cetera. And um uh the other uh two are a bit a bit higher. Well, just a different people I don't know personally, and it's uh TikNot Han and uh Pema Chodrin. I listen all the time. I get blown away and there's these beautiful talks. And there was one on and recovering from gum surgery, and just these things about what pops up is a talk where it's talking about, you know, your body just needs rest and about healing. And just it's always timely. It gets me gives me that that sort of security or comfort, inspires me to be, okay, we're in the let's go in a very calming and just gets my um gets my head straight. Um and so um again, I over and over again. So um, I think those are probably um those are most insp, you know, inspire me to be, you know, they calm me down, they fire me up and uh just show me a different way of living, which is um I still need it. I still need it. So thank God.

SPEAKER_07 41:23

You know, Ellie mentioned this, and I know other people have had this experience. Our power is in our stories. Our power is in our stories. That's how God uses us with our stories. And when we're doing our stories, when we do our testimony, and you're sitting there going, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, me too, me too, me too. That's identification. And that is also a demonstration or an inspiration that I don't have to be this way. Because I was like that person is describing it, and they're not like that anymore. So there must be a path through this, right? It's it's just so amazing. Hold on. Okay, there you go.

SPEAKER_08 42:40

Um, yeah, you're talking about the the power of the stories that that's you know, certainly listening. I listened to a lot of tapes really in recovery, and that gave me hope. Um especially when I had the identification that uh it worked for them because if it was up to me, I'd always worst case the outcome. I'm not gonna like recovery, it sucks, life's gonna be boring. Um having no basis for it, just worst casing it though, which is just being a pessimist. So yeah, the inspiration coming from other people. I just there's one uh defining moment, I would call it, and in um I was in one of your seminars, and I could never connect the dots between God is all powerful and hurricanes and typhoons and earthquakes. Um I just it was an open ended question, and I couldn't connect the dots. And uh you mentioned, well, those are just forces of nature. That was an aha moment. Yeah. It it really changed it changed the The concept of what is you know God being all powerful versus what's happening in nature and they're not necessarily connected. And yeah, like you know, that was transformational for me, the thinking about God being all powerful. And it was just one sentence by by you uh in response in res in response to a com a comment I made. So, you know, that was uh I call it a defining moment, a turning point for me. I'll pass.

SPEAKER_07 44:33

You know, that idea was brought to me in a bunch of different ways, but we were taking mediums of a guy who was dying of cancer during Katrina, and they were showing these towns on the on the beach that were just destroyed. The only thing left was the beach, the ocean, and the trees. And he looked at me and he said, Isn't that interesting? Everything God created is fine, everything man created is gone. I said, There you go. Life gets lifey. Well that moment you are describing, Pete, we all have moments like that. You hear someone say something, all of a sudden the dots connect, and you go, oh, I get that. I mean, that's isn't that one of the challenges when you're sponsoring someone? How do you make that text be contemporary? How do you make that text be relatable to them? Right?

Spiritual Practice Beyond Abstinence

SPEAKER_00 45:54

There's so many people when when you asked the question, who inspired you, you know, on this journey, maybe you said, I don't know about I thought immediately of who would I who do I to whom do I owe my sobriety? Like who without them would I have not made it? And um the ones that came to mind were of course Roger and Dick Rice, who when I was in the retreat, he was the spiritual director at the time. He's a Jesuit priest, and uh I came to him with some really off-the-wall ideas about God, and he's like, absolutely, of course, of course, you know, and I I mean literally I had no idea what I was talking to him about, but I made some connection between something I'd read that had the word grace in it, a paragraph somewhere with the word grace in it, something I had read, and then I got a letter from my child whose name is Grace today, and that must be God or something, you know, something so like elementary. But Dick was just right with me in it, and he was just like, Absolutely, of course, that's God, and you know, helped me with the whole concept of God. And then Roger was um, I I went I attended the gathering almost without fail for a very, very long time and looked forward to it. And others that I was in new new sobriety with were just like, Yeah, you're going, right? Yeah, I'm going. Then we walk out of the gathering going, Wow. Because what for the gathering for me was more of like application. For instance, I remember one time Roger said, Um, who would God have you be? Not what you do. What you do doesn't matter. Who do you be? And another thing, Roger said, I'm like, who would God have me be? I'm a human being, and that was brand new like idea for me. And another one was when Roger was discussing um making amends to people, and I got it all academically. Yeah, we have to, you know, do it for them. We have to make our amend for them, ask forgiveness and all that for them. But it was Roger, of course, writed the thing and said, No, what they do with your amend is not any of your business, and also what you do with it is that you do not repeat the behavior or your amend is worthless. And I was just like, huh? You know, oh my goodness. I thought it was just like with that instance with that person and you know, all of that. But you know, that putting the whole thing into practice for me took things like the gathering and of course people's stories and all of that. But I don't know about you guys, but I went to a lot of meetings and there were a lot of people who weren't doing the spiritual component of the program. It was put the plug in the jug, meet with us every week, just don't go to the bar, stay out of the pool hall, you know, that kind of stuff. And it's just like, well, that's not helping. Yeah, I can like knuckle it and not drink and see you guys once a week, but I needed the spiritual component that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines, and we are not saints, we aim for progress, not perfection. Those phrases in the book for me were like a lifeline because I just needed and I needed you to say, look, if you're gonna, you know, make amends for having whatever you did stolen from somebody, that means you don't steal anymore because you're doing this to change how you feel about yourself, you're doing this to to improve how you move about the world with the rest of the thing. It's not about not drinking, it's about being someone you can tolerate. So anyway, um, I could go on and on and on about Roger. And I I know Roger, you say that you don't and you don't inspire, but you do. Sorry, but you do. And um, without you, I don't know if I'd be sober because you're such an integral part of my once a month for a long time because I didn't see you outside the gathering for many years, once a month, and then the podcast, I would listen to it in the car because, like Allie mentioned, for me, it's like I just gotta hear it over and over and over again so I get it, so that I can think of it on my own, even you know, it's the the truth of this step or this concept or this principle is so um that's I'll just pass, run out of time, and really Roger, a long living man.

Amends Free You From The Past

SPEAKER_07 50:37

A long and winding road. There are two things I want to reflect on what you were talking about, a really common misconception in the fellowship right now, and when I'm traveling around that I see people think abstinence is recovery, which is why you relapse so much, because the abstinence becomes so unacceptable that you have to drink again because you haven't changed. And the whole, you know, I was one of those guys walking around in my early days, and the guys say, How you doing? I said, I'm fine except for the spiritual part. The whole thing is the spiritual part, you know, it's like it's amazing, isn't it? And the amend thing you're right. I don't do this. What your response is, is your response. But the other thing that I get from doing the amends is I get free of my past. That's why we don't recreate it. You know, if I'm gonna stop lying, I'm gonna stop lying everywhere. Stealing, same thing, whatever. And that's the the favorite thing the beast uses to get at us is our history. All the stuff that's been undone and unaddressed, and then it takes you to the future. What's gonna happen if you get caught? And oh no, I don't know, right? That's great. Thank you, everybody. Who else? We got time for some more. Megan, you're on the edge of doing

God Complaints Met With Love

SPEAKER_07 52:07

something.

SPEAKER_02 52:07

I pushed the wrong button and Zoom went away for a minute. Um, hey you guys, Megan, alcoholic. Um, I want to tell uh a couple stories. First of all, um, oh yeah, I said I'm an alcoholic. Um, you know, God has always blessed me with with amazing, amazing teachers. And um, the first one I had is well, is my dad. Um and uh I formed an abnormal relationship with alcohol before I ever took a drink because I watched what it did for him. Um, I also watched him get sober for a few years when I was in high school, and I've always adored my father. He's on a pedestal in my eyes. Um, but he became even kinder and better and a more wonderful human being when he was sober for those years. So I got to see him both um in that relationship with alcohol and in a period of sobriety. Um, you know, I've had uh an amazing sponsor who her her demonstration, um, more so than her words, right? Watching her walk through difficult things and being of service to others, right? Um and, you know, I got to jump on the on the bandwagon as well, is that I've had the privilege of having a lot of time with Roger through book studies, um, both over Zoom or whatever we used back in the day before Zoom was a thing, um, and the CDs. And there was a period of time um where um I used to say my sponsor fired me, but I think I just wasn't hearing her. And she's like, you got to take your crap to Roger. It's not what she said, but that's what I heard. And um there was this period of time where I was uh I was struggling with God um because uh people started being really mean to me. I mean, I think Dave broke up with me and stopped putting up my BS for a while. I like didn't get a job promotion I thought I should have, and you know, I mean, life was just rough. And um, and I was struggling with God and you had asked me, Roger. Well, he did a couple things and you said, Are you praying? And I said, Yeah. And you're like, Well, what are your prayers like? And and I said, What they were truthfully, which was basically kind of complaining and um, you know, telling God he wasn't doing his job right. Um, and your response was, okay, fine, if that's how you gotta do it, do it, but just keep doing it and end it with, but I'm here anyway. Okay. And um, you also asked me to write my conception of God out. And you said something really important at the end. You said, not the bullshit answer you think I want to hear the truth. Um, and I did. And it was eye-opening, right? It was things like God is fickle, uh, God is the slave driver, God only loves those who love God correctly, and I don't love God right. I mean, it was just like dark and twisty. Um, and and you asked me to um look at my relationships to watch some of the mothers I lived with interact with their kill, uh, their children or pet owners with their pets and just observe these things. And during this time, my mother had called and um my dad has some cognitive issues and he was having a really bad day. And she asked me to come home and help her with some things. And I got home and I'd never seen my dad in this state, and I've never seen him in this state since then. But it's almost like he remembered me at the worst of my drinking. Um, and he was saying things like, You're a disgrace to the family name, not that we have a family name, but um, and and I'm standing there because my dad doesn't talk to me that way, and I'm kind of in shock. And my mom is like in the corner bawling because I'm under a year sober and I think she thinks I'm gonna drink over this, right? And and he'd come at me with, you know, something again, um, you know, like, you know, we've poured uh our money, our time, our effort into you, and this is what you do with your life. And uh all of a sudden the thought occurred, just tell me loving. So I'd be like, that's okay, dad. I love you anyway. And he'd say something again about how disappointed he was, and I'd say, That's okay, dad, I love you anyway. So this ends, and we get dad to bed, and I assure mom I'm not gonna go drink, and I get in the car and I call Roger. Um, mainly because I think I'm gonna get some like sympathy points, and he's gonna be like, Oh, honey, that sounded so awful. That is not what he did, by the way. Um, I tell him the story, and it was quiet for a second, and he busted out laughing. And I was like, I don't think you heard me correctly, Roger. This is not a funny situation. Um, and what you said, it was pivotal. Um, and you know, it's something that uh guides my life today. And and that is that that interaction you just had with your dad, Megan, him coming at you and and you meeting him with love. Um, that's what's been going on with you and God. You've been hitting your knees in the morning and you've been complaining and basically giving God a piece of your mind, and he's just been sitting there going, that's okay, I love you anyway. Um, and in that moment, my concept shifted, right? Um, through my experience. Um, so anyway, I could tell a million Roger stories, uh, amends the um confession, contrition, restitution, repentance. Um, you know, those are terms that uh sounded kind of churchy to me, but when I'm taking a gal through, that's what we look at. And um uh an idea not married to action is a fantasy. I mean, all of these little nuggets, right? That I'll hear come out of uh my mouth and I'll kind of chuckle and be like, oh, that crabby old guy got me because man, I didn't want you to sink your claws into me, man. I was so offended in the beginning.

SPEAKER_07 57:54

You were doing fine until you got the crabby old man. Breaking my heart. You know that that exercise of write out your concept to God, and so when you deal with difficult people like that, you do you do that. Now I ask Megan, would you give yourself to that concept? No, then get another concept, and we that's how we have to do. We have to just keep examining this stuff and reverse engineering it until we get get it figured out that there's a part of our thinking that's not our friend, our friend. You know, I call it the beast. It's that piece that's always trying to undermine you and discourage you, and it's pessimistic, it's dark, it lives in the future and it lives in the past. Right.

Closing Gratitude And Third Step Prayer

SPEAKER_07 58:44

So we are uh coming out of time. So what a fun night. I didn't mean it to turn into the the Roger review, but it was uh I think it's worth thinking about, you know, because it it evokes gratitude. All the people, all the things I've done that at the time I was doing them, I didn't believe they worked, and they ended up having substance. They ended up being also sustainable, and you can't do that unless you run the experiment. Because if it's not in your action, it's just theoretical, and that's not recovery. Recovery's not theoretical. So, anyway, thank you. It was a good night, good night. Inspiration, who knew? So, uh, you want to close with a third-step prayer? Unmute yourselves.

SPEAKER_05 59:40

I could unmute you here too. Okay. Thank you for uh showing up.

SPEAKER_07 59:50

Stay safe on this holiday. You know, there's a lot of amateurs out there, and we don't want to get caught in the wake of an amateur. Keep your head on a swivel. All right, let's do it there. Thanks for being here. Thanks for lifting me up tonight. It was good. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

Thank you, Roger.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:19

Thanks, Roger. Roger. Here we go.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

God, God, I offered myself to battle with me and to do with me as thou wilt. Really the monster, that may better do thy will. Take away my difficulties, that victory with the mayor, be a witness to those that would help thy power. I love thy way of life. May I do thy life.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:47

Alrighty, thank you. Good stuff. Thanks, Brother.