The Gathering With Roger B.
The Gathering’s talks are generally tied to one or more of the 12 Steps, but are always guided by spiritual concepts, principles and ideas common to most faiths. Topics are drawn from a variety of sources: the 12 steps, many of the well-known wisdom texts, science and other teachers that speak to a spiritual solution to life's challenges. About Roger B. Roger has been in recovery for over 46 years and has spent thousands of hours in service, sharing his experience, strength and hope. He has created curriculum for treatment centers, and lead workshops and retreats throughout the United States and Canada. Roger is a Certified Spiritual Director, and offers insight into spiritually-based living skills that are relevant to all people – whether in recovery or not. Roger is the first to admit that his long-term sobriety was brought about by the “trial-and-error method.” His experience reveals what has worked, and - perhaps more importantly - what has not worked, but taught him valuable life lessons. Roger B. and The Gathering with Roger B. are not affiliated, or endorsed by any third parties or 12-step programs. The Gathering on Zoom first and Third Wed 7pm CT id 728-200-4166 password 513915 downloads at www.gstl.ecwid.com
The Gathering With Roger B.
#96 Holding Steady Through The Holidays
So we have the Holidays on the horizon. I did this a couple of years ago. If you are someone who has a lot of stress during this time of year. This may offer you some options. Its an open mic session, people sharing what and how they get through the challenges of the holidays. I hope if you struggle this will be helpful for you.
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Roger alcoholic. October 11, 1978, is when I started this journey. Um, and for those of you who are regular listeners, we're gonna do something new tonight. We're gonna try something new, and that is uh kind of an open meeting where everyone can share. And we're in the we're in the uh we're in the holidays, which oftentimes is stressful, oftentimes is relapsing, um, and oftentimes is not. So if you've gotten over some of your challenges, you might want to share that. If you've if you're struggling, you might want to share that. Okay. So there you go. Who wants to go first?
SPEAKER_03:Barb alcoholic. Hi, Barb.
SPEAKER_10:Hi.
SPEAKER_03:Um, so um prior to getting sober, I um I lost my brother, my sister-in-law, my mom, my dad, and and the holidays were very difficult because they weren't around. And and uh so it used to be Christmas. Uh, and then we well, the month before is November, let's roll that into it. And then my mom died in October. So beginning October through the holidays, I was a wreck um because the traditions were gone, the family was gone, and it was not the same. And so um after getting sober, I still struggled with um the absence of these folks and the tradition not being there. And so um, and then people wouldn't ask me to do anything anymore because they knew come October I shut down. Well, I ended up talking to my sponsor about it because um I was just it was just like an annual event. It was, it was, it stunk. And one thing um that she suggested to me was in October, around the time my mom passed, um, she said, would you be willing to um celebrate her life rather than uh stay in self? And I thought, uh, okay, I could do that. And she asked me how old she was, and she gave me an example that she had lost her niece, and for I think eight days, she um she did random acts of kindness uh on behalf of her niece. And so for the entire month of October, I did a random act of kindness um for my mom. And I'll tell you what, uh, it doesn't cost anything. Uh I found a dime and made some little boy happy. Strike up a conversation with somebody that maybe looks lonely, even just smile at someone, say good morning. And it made a world of difference for me. And so um I can tell you I've been doing that for three years for the entire month of October in honor of my mother. I do a random act of kindness, and I do not sit in self anymore. So that's what I have to share. Thank you.
SPEAKER_07:Excellent, excellent. So that's the that's the reframing, right? That's the I need to create a different story, a different angle, and find a way to honor these people that were dear to me, rather than wallowing my loss. That's a self-pity, a self-so great example, Barb. Great example. So can I find a way to honor them? Practice it because now you see you've shi shifted from the loss to celebrating what they gave you. That's important. Negative to positive. Who's next?
SPEAKER_06:I'm Terry and I'm an alcoholic. Hi, Terry. Hi Terry. Back in the day, the party season started on Halloween. After the kids went out, a bunch of guys would get together glass in hand and go out trick or treating, and then it ended probably the second or third of January. Well, I sobered up in October, October 1st. We usually went up to my in-laws up in St. Louis Park for holiday dinners, and there was always wine and champagne around the table. So my first Thanksgiving up there, they make me feel powered up. They got me some sparkling non-alcoholic apple juice. And I drank one glass and I drank the second glass out of courtesy, and I couldn't drink anymore because it was too close to the real thing. It scared me. Well, then back to back home in Rochester for Thanksgiving and Christmas, there was always about three or four open houses, so he could start eating dinner about 11 o'clock in the morning and finish up about six o'clock in the evening. But the most important part was the fellowship, a bunch of drunks hanging around together trying to stay sober over a bad time of year. And to my best of my knowledge, is still going on. And I moved down to uh Green Valley, Arizona, the Tucson, Arizona area, and there's alcathons 24 hours straight, Christmas Eve to late Christmas Day, and then uh New Year's Eve to New Year's Day, and they're always well supported. So for me, it was hanging around with the fellowship, hanging around with other drunks, trying to hang on until the program took effect. So thanks for being here for me. For that, I'll pass. Thanks. Thanks, Terry.
SPEAKER_07:Thank you, Terry. Kirsten, what we're doing is we're talking about different things people have learned about how to get through the holidays and mitigate the stress. So we're doing kind of an open mic thing.
SPEAKER_05:Thank you, Roger. I apologize for being late.
SPEAKER_10:What about loneliness?
SPEAKER_07:What about loneliness? You know it's funny. So when I got sober, you know, I was single and all my married friends would say, Well, come over, do Thanksgiving, do Christmas with us. I really didn't want to, you know. And they said, uh, well, you don't want to be alone for the holidays. Well, yes, I did. Because in the early days, that was the best way for me to get through it. It's just stay low and it will pass. And then later on, you add things like the gratitude and the random acts of kindness and prayer and meditation and all that. But in the beginning, you don't you're vulnerable, you don't have those techniques. Who's next?
SPEAKER_04:Ann Alanon.
SPEAKER_07:Hi Ann. Hi Ann.
SPEAKER_04:Um, I came from a sober family. Uh, in terms of abstinence, I mean, my parents had the same bottles of alcohol that sat in the cupboard year after year after year. And um, but I left my family for 10 years because of the level of dysfunction. Uh, my mother came from the um alcoholic family, and so all of that just continued through. And for 10 years, despite all my family living here, and this was self-chosen, I couldn't tolerate um everything about that. And so I stayed alone every Christmas, every holiday. It was really empty. Um, my life was really empty. Um, and so finally, four years ago, uh the person that people would call my qualifier was uh sensitive enough to tell me I had to reconnect with my family, and it was because of my alcoholic uh qualifier that I was able to return to my family who really embraced me with open arms. And one of the issues is that they're extremely affluent people. My sibl my siblings live here, I live on Social Security, uh I'm on Medicaid. Um, it's always dollar to dollar. And so at this time of year, I look around at the presents I can't afford to give. And I I'm I'm the odd duck in this respect. And um I'm respected, but I I've lived in a false self for so long that it takes courage for me to say, I don't have wrapping paper. I'm gonna be wrapping my gifts and I'm gonna make a joke about it, Laura Ingalls Wild style, and wrap everything in old grocery bags. Um, I know that sounds like a minor thing, but um to me, it's a badge of uh, I don't want to say courage, it's just a step in just saying, hey, look, this is who I am. Um I'm probably too self-reliant to ask to borrow some Christmas paper. Um and I also just have those kinds of values. I have millim a minimalist lack of consumer interest, and that is really me. And so um I'm having to at the age of almost 72 start living like who I am. And so the holiday this year, instead of acting like you know, this anxious person who can't afford anything and do anything, I'm just gonna be who I am and uh give what I can give. Um my main gift to my family is prayer for my family as an intercessor in prayer, and that's a big part of my life. Um, we we have multiple levels of religious and spiritual experience, um, and so that's what I can offer, and so I feel like I have to work really hard to believe that I have value in how I am and how I exist. So, with that, I am looking forward to it. Um, and I'll pass.
SPEAKER_07:Thanks, An. Thank you. You know, that's a that's a story about being defined by the externals, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04:It is, it really is.
SPEAKER_07:I don't measure up, I don't have the money they do, therefore I must be of less value.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, and it's not true, and so what I have to do, what I'm called to do is change that narrative. Because that narrative just keeps me down, it just keeps me depressed, it keeps me isolated. So I have to change the narrative, and to do that, I have to change some ideas, you know. My a person's value isn't their net worth, a person's value is what they can bring to any given situation. So I want to be a bringer of love, I want to be a bringer of peace, I want to be a bringer of hope, faith, right? And those you you know, you're you were saying uh it doesn't cost anything to pray and bless people, and it might be the greatest gift of all.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I am very surprised at how much the external barrier of measurement of the self is really a huge uh barrier to living in a more authentic way. It's very, very in in the culture we live in here in Minnesota, it's really very it sticks out like a sore thumb.
SPEAKER_07:And what we're doing here is what you're describing, what we're talking about, is I'm defined by the externals. And the truth is I need to be defined by the internals, my prayer life, my meditation, my helpfulness, my kindness, my anonymous good deeds, those things. Am I helpful or not? You know, am I bringing harmony or or dissonance? Yeah. Who wants to go next?
SPEAKER_05:Well, I'm Kirsten and I'll go because I have a lot of the uh some similar things going on with Anne, a few parallels there. And um what I've really enjoyed about being c being closer to who I am is is not doing the stuff that used to make me drink. I mean, when you said the in the intro, Robin, you welcomed me in, uh Roger, about how do we stay sober during the holidays? Well, you know, in the beginning for me, I wasn't yet willing to let go of those external things. Like I was still buying all the gifts for people I hardly knew. Like there was some weird rule in my husband's family where you're buying gifts for all the cousins and all these people. And I'm like, I don't even know who they are. This is ridiculous. And it stressed me out. And the very last time I ever hosted Christmas for David's family, I was two months sober and I relapsed because I just could not do it. I could not do it sober. Um, there's just way too much stress and expectation, and you know, it's that whole expectation, glamour, gifts, abundance, all that crap. And um, so one of the things that I did was never do that again. I don't host because it stresses me out, and um in fact, I don't even pretty much hang out with some of those members of the family anymore. One of the ways that I stay during the holidays is that I just don't do the parties. I just don't because it normalizes drinking for me, and I'm I'm afraid of my brain normalizing drinking. And um I just go to meetings, I call my sponsee, make sure they're doing okay, or just anything. I reach out to my sponsor, anything that has to do with not drinking, not doing that that cultural expectation of what the holidays are. I can't stand the holidays. It's like Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's. I mean, come on, let's just go back to normal because it is hard, it's just hard. People, it's crazy. Tonight is our solstice, our winter solstice, and as animals, we're supposed to be resting, and everyone is, you know, this is such a stressful time of year. Everyone's running around doing all the shopping and trying to meet this expectation on Saturday and Sunday at the end of our week here, and it's just so backward to me. And I um we're supposed to be resting, and so that's what my family has really enjoyed is like no expectations, our presence is the gift, and we still exchange a few funny things, usually they're hilarious, but um I got sober. I I just it's you know the whole thing change your playmates, change your playground, change my attitude, and um you know it's I I know my brain wants to normalize drinking, and so I just can't afford to be dealing with that. You know, most of the year I can recoil as if alcohol is a hot flame, most of the year, but around this time of year, I just um I I can't risk it. So that's how I stay sober.
SPEAKER_09:My name is Brian. I'm an alcoholic. Hey Brian, Brian. So uh Kirsten, you remind me of my wife. You know, she always has a problem every Christmas because she uh still gets stressed out, and one year we went to Florida for two weeks simply to get get out of Christmas.
SPEAKER_10:I love it.
SPEAKER_09:That's why we went, and uh but this year it's a little bit different because a lot of our our uh our our kids are gone. Yeah, my son got married and they moved to Detroit, so they're not coming for Christmas. My daughter is in the retreat right now, and she doesn't get out until January 11th, and so the only person we have is her her son, you know, our little grandson, who's six years old. So it's gonna be him and my wife and me celebrating Christmas, so that's not so stressful, but um I always had a problem with loneliness, and my solution for fifty years almost was to drink because I and I I've learned something in over the last year, you know, that's related to my alcoholism, was that I I discovered that well, I I've always known that I could only socialize with people if I was drunk or if I had been drinking. When I wasn't drinking, I didn't know how to do that, I didn't know how to socialize, and just recently I've been uh investigating this high-functioning autism, and I think that I am one of these people that I don't know how to do that, and I will never do that, and I also married my wife because instinctively she's the exact opposite of that, and so she shields me from the social uh awkwardness that I feel, and I really don't know what to do. There isn't anything I can do about that, but it makes me feel better that that I see. I always felt like I should be able to learn the rules, I should be able to make friends, or I should be able to even you know, I have four sisters and a brother, and they get together, we get together every Christmas, and it it's I've known these people for 70 years, and it it's like they're just acquaintances to me, and I don't know how to to get through that, and so that's it's that's kind of sad, but thanks to the this program, you know, of Alcoholics Anonymous and going through the steps, I I'm okay with that now. I don't get lonely anymore, I'm at peace with it, um, but I'm still learning. Maybe there's something I can do to contact people. You know, I can only contact, I can only have uh I I do better on a one-in-one basis. Like this is the worst thing you can do is to sit with uh 18 people and discuss something. That's something I I I can't do, and I'm I'm doing it now because I've I've learned to mask it, you know. Like I've known Roger for many years, and I I have no relationship with him at all. Uh he might think I'm a friend of his, but it doesn't that doesn't occur to me. I mean, I never even I've I've never I feel very awkward calling somebody up and saying, hey, uh what's happening? You know, what are you doing? I I have to have a specific reason to do that. And if I don't, if I can't think of a reason, I don't don't call. I don't I don't have any contact with them. So I don't know, I'm kind of rambling on and on. But uh this uh this Christmas is gonna be a lot less stressful than usual at all paths, Brian.
SPEAKER_07:You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna say something that might be upsetting to some people, but what's going on here solely is the story I'm making up about the situation, and it's a story that I've reinforced for decades, so it feels like the real thing. But if uh Marcus and I were sitting around and we're talking about Christmas, I'm going, Oh, I dread Christmas, and he looks at me and goes, Christmas is no big deal. Well, that's just two stories. It's just two stories. And I can choose to rewrite the story. I don't have to live in fear, I don't have to live in this compare-contrast baloney with the culture. I don't have to live in who's got the biggest car who makes the most money. But you've got to practice because I'm one of the things that happens is we get seduced into listening to that negative narration, thinking it's us and it's the truth. And it's not, it's the beast, it's what your false self is doing, and you've subtly identified with the thinking, and you think that's me. But if I can hear the thinking and go, that's a crazy damn idea, well, then who's the listener? Who's the listener? Right? And I need to understand that there are options here, and it might take some time to uh to develop them and to get some consistency, but you don't have to live in suffering and pain. Totally unnecessary. I'm doing it to me by believing the story that my head made up. So what else?
SPEAKER_01:I'm Susan, I'm an alcoholic. Oh, here's Susan. Hi, everyone. Um it always just baffled me in the beginning when Roger would talk about not having any memories whatsoever, not one single memory could he draw upon that was positive.
SPEAKER_07:For Christmas.
SPEAKER_01:For Christmas. I I like we spent a lot of time in the car driving to Roundups, and um, and I would kind of grill him and and and and take turns and try to come up with something that well, what about the cookies? Well, like, do you remember? I mean, I am serious, like it baffles me that he couldn't come up with any like happy memory. And and and then I realize it's just it's not that he's um blocked out anything happy. It's just it's his experience, my experience. And and so I'm basing everything that I'm looking at and his experience through my lens, through what my experience was growing up. And I had happy, wonderful, um, fantastic memories, and they were crazy and they were fun and big family and great traditions growing up. And um, and so I just keep thinking like I can I could talk for hours about all the wonderful things about my holidays. And you can't come up with one. I mean, there has to be one Christmas where you got, you know, just um, and so and so that just that idea of of everyone has their own experience, and I have to step back and um if I can compassionately look at everyone's experiences as being different um than mine, and not mine isn't right and and his isn't right. It's just we we have different experiences. And um so so um my very first um sober holiday was Thanksgiving. And um so I'm going to be celebrating uh uh sober birthday on Boxing Day. So uh I will have seven years sobriety. So we were just talking about this, um, about just the reflection that you go through when you have a sober birthday. There's like that time where you reflect upon um, you know, where you were however many years ago and and how fun what life is like now and how life was then. And for me, it's especially obvious because it's the holidays. So I can look back seven years ago and go, seven years ago, the day after Christmas, I walk, I woke up, went into the kitchen, my son said, You look like the Grinch because your eyes are yellow like a highlighter. I was green. Um, and I ended up in the hospital and in intensive care. And um, so for me, it's really a stark difference. Um, I had a lot of really happy Christmases, many, many, many way before that, into my adulthood. And um, but the last six months of my drinking was a blackout. So I vaguely remember that last pretty much, you know, more than half a year. And so I can I can reflect on this holiday and the experiences that we're having, a lot of differences, a lot of change, a lot of new things happening, um health issues for me. And and I'm not able to show up like I used to. And and I've been struggling because I see um all of the Christmas cookies I used to make, I see all of the the gifts I would make and I would give and I would, and all the extra things I would do and ways I would go out of my way, and I am not able to do that anymore. So I have this shame thing we keep talking about, just going into this. I can't be the mom I want, I want to be. I can't be the wife I want to be. I can't, you know, and and is that true? That that's not true. I can't be like I used to be. And was that the right way? Probably not so much because I was not very healthy. I was I was stressed out because I wanted everything to be perfect, I wanted everything to get done. I had the everything has to be a certain way. And that idea of the expectations that I had placed on every holiday. So my very first sober Thanksgiving when I um I had this sort of experiencial experience for, and it was a huge shift in how I approached holidays. And it was tremendous for me because I finally was able to sit back and nothing went the way it was supposed to go. That nobody was sitting around the table with their name place card and with every single thing perfectly made and everyone. Behaving imperfectly and everything absolutely Martha Stewart. And um, and my kids were busy and everyone was. I mean, it was just like me sitting alone with my little grandbaby who I was allowed to be with. I mean, it was totally different. And I was sat back and I went, you know, I'm I'm finally at a place in my life where I'm able to allow life to happen the way it's meant to be. And why is it happening the way this way? Because it's meant to happen this way. And and now I have the tools to look at some of the experiencing experiences I've been having the last few weeks with the the um looking into some shame of not being able to perform the way I used to. And um, and I have the skills in my inventory process to go through and go, wait a minute, why am I why are things coming out sideways? Why am I snapping at my my husband? Why am I my son brought home a gift from my his girlfriend's mother and I refused to open it a couple of days ago, right? I refused to open it. I said, put it under the tree because I all of a sudden was able to unravel through the inventory process to look at that and go, why do I feel this way? And the reason was because I I want to be that that mother who's giving the gift to the girlfriend's mom. And I want to, and and so I'm associating all these shame things, but I've got these tools. So now I'm able to handle life when life gets difficult. Because I've been practicing these things when life wasn't so difficult and all along, and I've been going through these experiences, life has been pretty rocky and difficult, but now I've got ways to pull it, pull out of it. And I've got all of these ways to, I love the idea of having the kindness and acts of kindness and having these new ways of looking at it. And and do I have to have store-bought wrapping paper? I love making wrapping paper. I mean, come on, let's make our own wrapping paper. I'm downstairs in the basement making Christmas cards and and and um and those things that can I embrace the way I am? Can I embrace the fact that I'm not a social creature, that I may not be, I am some of us may not be as social creatures and um and may not want to be in the big in the big party. And you know, it's just it's so much better to reflect on life now, even if it's difficult, and to know that I have tools to look at it differently and to um engage in life differently, even through some difficult times, um, and and able to go forward and and have find joy in a different way. It doesn't have to be the way it was for it to be good. I can still have it be different and and good in a different way and find joy in a different way. And I don't have to put those expectations on the other people around me um once I can realize that. And um, and I was just on the phone with my daughter today, and she was we were talking about these ideas of she's not a social person. She wants to just be alone and they didn't they just didn't show up for Thanksgiving. Like we're expecting them, I've got the food ready, this Thanksgiving. And they just didn't show up. And and for me, I just I mean, something was going on. I can let that go so easily, like it wasn't even a big deal to me. And and it's just, I mean, it's just it's life, and and I don't have to put those firm expectations on it because I always know in the end, when I look back, that the way it turns out is always better, and God's way is always better than what I could have ever concocted on my own. Um, and the last thing, I think the last thing, the best Christmas, the best present ever that Roger has ever Tes Token has ever received from me. Do you know? No, the jar. So, like, you know, like what do you get for these men that buy have everything they need or whatever, don't want a new thing. And so I gave him a jar one year, and I and I wrote all of the qualities of Roger on little pieces of paper and examples of those qualities of how he showed up with those qualities. I the jar is right here. We could grab it and read one, but but it's like the things like that are so meaningful to people and the random acts of kindness and the praying for people, and and what a beautiful thing. I just I I can look at the holidays in a different way, and I can have even a better experience than I ever has because I have the tools that I've been practicing when things are a little easier um to implement them when things are not so easy. I'll pass.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks, Susan.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks, Susan.
SPEAKER_07:Um there's uh Ann touched on it, Susan touched on it once too. When you're externally referred, you're always in a dualistic frame of mind. Good, bad, right, wrong. And she mentioned it who's right here. Everyone's right. Everyone's right. You have your experience, I have my experience. The ego wants to know who's right, and the spirit wants to know what's right. And so that's where we're gonna stare our stare our thinking towards because that's freedom. We can just be who you are, and you do you're free of those external pressures that aren't you, they're the cultures, and you've adapted some of them. You know what's a big deal. Who wants to go next?
SPEAKER_02:I'll go next. I'm Marty and I'm an alcoholic. Hi Marty. Hi Marty. Hi, you guys. It's really good to hear from you. Um you know, I experience a lot of isolation and loneliness at Christmas time, especially when I hit the day. I look forward to to making Christmas happy, but on the day of Christmas, I don't do a whole lot. Um and I'm so glad that we had this discussion tonight about the stresses of holidays. Um, last night I went shopping and I had a wad of money in my hand, and when I came to pay the bill, the money was gone, and I must have dropped it without even knowing that it was in my hand. And I lost a hundred dollars, and I was so freaked out. I I I just I was just numb. I didn't know what to do. I thought, oh my god, my money's gone. Um and I don't have a whole lot of money, but but that's not the thing. But the thing to me was was that you know I hope that somebody got that money that really needed it. And and now I'm gonna have to let go of that and and and move on, you know, and and that's what I'm trying to do, you know. Um that's that's big stuff for me, you know, and and and it probably sounds so ridiculous. Well, why didn't you put it in your bill folder? Why didn't you put it someplace where it was safe or your purse or something like that? And and I I said I can't keep beating myself up. I just can't. And I can't buy the things right now that I would have liked to have bought, but I didn't. Um and so anyway, uh hopefully my husband and I will be able to go Christmas Day to to intergo and and and be with alcoholics who who don't have families and stuff and don't have a place to go. And that's where I feel like I'm really needed down there, you know, and and that's a place I can go. And and towards evening I this sounds this towards evening I will probably get out my my takes of Roger and listen to him for the duration of my Christmas day. And you know, I I you know it's really funny with me because I I really have to have something to look forward to. You know, sometimes when I'm in the moment, I need to be more in the moment instead of being in the past. When when I was married to my first husband, we had we were drunk all the time. And my Christmases when I was a little girl were wonderful, absolutely wonderful. I couldn't ask for better Christmases, and I think about that, and I would get depressed at Christmas time, and I want to turn, I I want to be able to look differently at what I'm gonna be doing this Christmas. You know, how I can be a better person. And Roger does such a super job of telling of letting people know that they don't have to be where they're where they are, you know, and and I I'm looking forward to that. I'm looking forward to the random act of kindness that that I can do to make other people's lives a little bit better than than than than what they are, or just or just being there for people, you know, and and if that's all I can give, that's all I can give, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that. Um you know, I was wrapping up my husband's presence the other night, and I thought, you know what, nothing is good enough for my husband, and and that's what I was saying the whole time I was wrapping his presence, you know, and I felt so bad about myself. And I took the anger out on other people I lived with, and I had to turn around and tell them I was sorry that for my behavior, because it was me that was having the problems, it wasn't them, and they were blaming I was being oh boy, um anyway. I had to turn around and tell them I was sorry, and I was so glad that I was able to do that. But that's been my Christmas experience, and and anyway, without thanks Marty.
SPEAKER_07:That's actually a great example of a of an intervention on the negative thing. I lost my hundred bucks, and I could have beaten myself up about that for weeks, and I turned it around by saying, Well, I hope whoever found it can really use it. That's turning into a prayer and a blessing, and the the that's freedom because the other way we drag all this stuff from the past into the day, and it robs us of the presence. We can't be present over dragging yesterday or last month or 30 years ago into this moment. It destroys the presence, it destroys the possibility of any joy or peace. Who else? This worked out pretty good, didn't it? Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:This is Bill, and I am an Al-Anon and uh clutterer. Hi, Bill. Um so one of the things I just discovered last year, I lost a nephew who was 40, young, had a brain tumor, and uh last year it was our first Christmas without him. And I discovered this service called uh Blue Christmas. And in terms of loneliness, it's it's really it really helped me out just going to that service. It's uh the Monday before Christmas, and it's basically for people who are uh feeling grief around the holidays, and it did, it does really help me just to kind of know that I'm not alone in this grief. Um, I know that, you know, in my head, but to see people gathered there um is is really helpful. Um this year I went. Um my my grief is not as acute as it was, you know, last year, but kind of like what Barb was saying, you know, I I thought, you know what, maybe this year I can just go. And yeah, I still have some grief that I'm working through, but I can be more mindful of the people around me and and maybe you know, just be there in prayer and be there, be there in present. Like people show up for meetings at Al-Anon. That's that's service. And so um, so that was helpful. Uh and I think I'm gonna try to make that a more of a tradition for myself. Um the other thing in terms of the holidays, I have this um oh, you know, a sense of over-responsibility for you know my family having a good time or connecting, I guess I'll say it that way. Um, and so my expectations for the holidays were always like way up here. And I would plan these, you know, meditations and ceremonies and I try to do them, and we have like 25 people, and they were all they were all you know talking over each other. I don't know what I was thinking. Like I never get like we never have find some quiet to to do some meditation, or but uh and somehow I felt responsible to to do this. And so um, I have in the past maybe 10 years just um let go of my need to feel like I have uh I have to make sure everybody is having a meaningful uh Christmas. And so I just have had a lot more serenity um going and letting going, having realistic expectations. I want to be, I want to be present. I don't want to be completely resigned. I kind of the pendulum kind of swung one way, or I was just completely resigned and you know, um, whatever happens, happens. And that's not such a bad taste, but I but I want to find that balance of you know being engaged um without being controlling. Uh so anyways, uh anyways, I've I've I've been able to enjoy people for who they are. I still struggle with with uh you know judging um a a couple people in my family, I and I I gotta work on that still. Um but uh anyways, um I'm I've been finding more peace and being able to enjoy the holidays a little bit more. I also listen to my uh someone told me to like listen to my body because I'm more on the quiet side, and when my family gets all big and loud and um I can just feel myself kind of shrinking down sometimes. And it's okay to give myself permission to to leave when when uh when I'm just sensing this, I don't know, I I can't keep up. So so um that has allowed me just give myself that permission to to leave, um uh you know, without feeling you know, ashamed about that, um, has also been helpful uh for me. And I look forward to the to the holidays. It's interesting. We did change our tradition. We usually are celebrate on Christmas Day, but because of uh unusual circumstance, we had it last Saturday. So um I have no plans for Christmas. It's my my wife and I, and we're gonna create something new. I'm not sure what it's gonna be, but um, I trust it'll be it'll be good. So, anyways, thank you everybody for sharing.
SPEAKER_07:Thanks, Bill.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks, Bill.
SPEAKER_07:Thanks, Bill. Anyone else?
SPEAKER_00:Go ahead, Don. Hi, my name's uh Don Helmok. I'm a grateful member, Alcoholics Anonymous, and uh I want to thank thank everybody for sharing. You know, I've got something out of everybody who shared this evening, and as you've talked, I've touched different parts of my story and my recovery. And um, you know, I uh I remember a lot of really, really fun Christmases when I was a little kid. It was like Christmas, we would have like a truce, you know, all the chaotic stuff that was going on in my my family when I was very, very small. Uh, you know, we had dysfunctional families hadn't been invented yet in the 1950s, but we had something similar. And uh all this chaos that would go on through the year was like for two weeks around Christmas, there would be a truce, and everybody would have fun. Christmas would be magical, and they went on like that until the day I started drinking. And then when I had that first drink and I started drinking, and and all of a sudden, Christmas would become a real chaotic thing for me. And uh, I remember drinking through a whole Christmas, missed the whole thing, woke up to find out that one of the uh friends that I had, an older guy actually perished uh during the time I was drunk. And uh uh another time I fell off a bridge, and I'll tell you, that never happens to me in sobriety. Um, so I had a lot of crazy things that happened, a lot of bad memories. But uh, as Roger said and others have shared, you know, when I got sober, uh I started to reframe these things. Uh, I started to look forward and do the steps and do the things that people told me to do. And a big thing was they said at Christmas time, go to meetings. And I I did that for the first few years. I'd go to meetings, uh, Christmas Day, boxing day. I sometimes I go to three meetings a day. Uh, and then they said, you know, quit thinking about yourself, Don, go help other people. And uh so I looked for other people to help, and uh I found them at a soup kitchen. Huh? And I started volunteering at a soup kitchen on Christmas, and then uh uh you know I started uh you know, as relationships got put back together and uh uh relationships with my family and everything, I started thinking about you know, nieces and nephews. And uh as the the longer I stayed sober, the better life got. And when I when I started encountering difficulties around the holidays or any other time of my life, I I just look at the people around me in the groups and I'd I'd just do what they did. And usually it involved going to meetings, sharing, don't be alone, and think of other people. And uh, you know, everybody has shared tonight about something that that worked for them, and uh and and I got a little bit of something from everybody who shared this evening. I really did. And uh, you know, I've been sober. Is it okay if I share my sobriety date, Roger? Sure. Uh I got my sobriety date is October the 27th, 1981. Um and uh I was 15 years sober when I met Roger, and my life had fallen apart in sobriety. I met Roger at uh a winter conference in 1997, end of January, and I had a sober older brother. Everybody in my family got sober, uh which was amazing to me, I'll tell you. I mean, and uh my older brother took me to hear Roger speak at a winter conference because he said, you know, Don, you've been doing this too much on your own. I'm gonna introduce you to a guy who did the same thing, and he got better after he quit doing it on his own. And that was Roger. And uh and ever since then, you know, Roger and I have connected, sometimes closer, sometimes from farther away. Uh, somebody shared earlier about uh listening to Roger on Christmas Day, gonna listen to his talks and everything. Hey, I've done that at Christmas. Uh, I found things to do for other people in groups. Uh, very fortunate in in Winnipeg here where I live, we have uh we've got Christmas Eve services, we've got clubrooms open all day, we've got all kinds of stuff going on through the week. And uh uh we have a lot of fellowship here and a lot of good tools that we can take advantage of. And uh somebody mentioned reframing. And uh every once in a while, when these negative memories would come up, I would just say to myself and to my higher power, hey, that was then, I'm forgiven, I'm moving on. And I would look for somebody to help, like it says in a big book. And uh I spent some time the last couple of weeks with a with an Afghan veteran. I mean, Canadian Army fought there just like your people did. And uh this guy showed up at church, and he's he's my age, like he's almost 70. And uh, and we got talking, and uh uh you know, he gets up in the middle of coffee in the little coffee shop in the church. He saw me how he threw a hand grid and he's going all this flashback stuff and PTSD. People are looking, they're like running away from this guy. And I thought, you're my kind of guy, buddy. Let's sit down, let's have a coffee, let's talk. Because I've been through all kinds of tragedy at Christmas in my work. I mean, I've been to deaths, suicides, fires, car accidents, you name it. And I chose, I made a conscious decision, like Roger alluded to. I was gonna reframe all these things. I was not gonna let those things define me. I was gonna redefine myself as a child of God with a higher power who love me, and with a fellowship of other people like myself who meet in club rooms, who find a power greater than themselves, who carries them through life one day at a time. And I know some of you have various degrees of sobriety and various time in. We all have one day at a time. All I have is today. And I make every day a conscious decision that I'm gonna love somebody. Some days it's me, but most days it's the people around me because they need they need love, they need people to care about them. And Alcoholics Anonymous, the 12-step groups, people like Roger and people that I met, um, they they loved me back to some kind of normality. And uh, for those of you who feel that uh, you know, you need money to give a gift or you feel less than, I've been there. Hey, I've been there, I've been there a few times in my life. But I gotta tell you, the best gifts that you can give somebody, in my opinion, are to pray, like people have mentioned, and just show up and be there for them. Like Roger, I've lost many friends this year. Heart attacks, different things. You know, I'm almost seven years old, and I'll tell you, my circle of friends is shrinking. And if I had one Christmas wish, it would be just to have some of those people around still go for a cup of coffee with. Uh, so for those of you who are thinking that Christmas is about gifts and feeling less than, please reframe that idea. Let it go. Just look for somebody you can help. I'm sorry that I rambled, Roger, but I really appreciate everybody here. Merry Christmas to everyone. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_07:Thank you so much. Okay, I'm gonna end the recording.