#92 Whats Wrong with Me?

As a boy I came to the conclusion there was something wrong with me. No matter what I did or achieved it never felt like enough, it didnt complete me. So I became more convinced that I had to show you, i would prove I was someone. What was behind, or underneath it all, was shame and fear. So I became a victim a blamer and a martyr. I had it backwards I was always fighting with who's right? (because I cant be wrong) and the real question was what's right! This also includes a group discussion on the how & whys. Also the way out. we are in over 59 countries and 797 cities, pleas join us

Chapters

• 0:00 A Life Saved And The Beast Named
• 5:20 Control, Victimhood, And False Self
• 12:30 Identity Traps: Do, Have, Be Liked
• 19:35 Loss, Change, And It’s Not Personal
• 25:40 The Merton Prayer And Choosing Life
• 31:15 From Heavy Load To Call To Love
• 36:50 Practice Being: Kind, Quiet, Present
• 43:10 Truth Checks And Financial Fear
• 49:30 In The World But Not Of It
• 55:40 Steps 10–11: Unlearn And Adjust

Transcript

SPEAKER_08: 0:03

Roger alcoholic. October 11th, 1978. I hit uh 47 years last month, and that's 47 years of pure grace. I was supposed to be dead when I was 30. And I never lose sight of that. Every day is a gift. So this is what's come up. I think everyone has had these moments in their lives where they sit around and it might have happened when we were little, it might have happened later on, but there's always some moments where I go, what is wrong with me? What is wrong with me? I got the message that something was wrong with me really early in my life, maybe say six, seven, eight years old. And so the whole rest of the time was spent on trying to prove that I was of value, that there was nothing wrong with me. And so I built this persona and I plowed through life arguing and fighting with everybody and everything. People, places, circumstances. There's a lot of fear, there's a lot of shame, and there's some messaging I got that just wasn't useful. So I became quite adept at arguing because I can't be wrong. I can't be wrong. Because if I'm wrong, it means that they were right. So I can't be wrong, so I can't ever admit a mistake. So I have to argue you into the dust until you either go away or concede my point. So I'm going through life in a totally defensive posture against everything, like several billion people on the planet. So this does not make for a peaceful, happy existence. Besides the armor, I had to develop in the world. And the way I was gonna be in the world is I was gonna control everything to keep myself safe. So this is not a very healthy and productive way to live. Everybody and everything was a potential threat. So I've got this thing, you those of you that know me, you've heard this a bunch. I have this thing called the beast. It's the voice inside that's always trying to sabotage me and cut me off at the knees and find something wrong with everything. So out of that, out of that approach, that attitude, um I became very belligerent and closed-minded, shut off. So I forgot what I was gonna say. I'm sorry. So the beast, I I I believe the beast is my voice, is me. And it's not, it's the voice that's trying to kill me. It's the false self. So what comes out of that is blame, and I become a martyr or a victim of my circumstances, of my gene pool, of my parenting, everything. Now it's all out here, it's all extern external. So if you were just different, I could be different. If I would have had different parents, I could be different. If they would have been different parenting styles, I could have been different. If people weren't so selfish and self-centered, I could have been different. And as long as I've got that victim mentality, there's absolutely no way for me to get around this. So what happens to us is eventually our system crashes and burns, right? Because I'm fighting with life. It's not personal. Life is just like a river, it's just flowing, it's just there are things happening. There, there are celebrations and there are losses. It's just, and I don't have to interact with every event or every circumstance or every person I meet. But from that other posture, I'm always trying to be the top dot in the right size person, right? Control. Why do I the control is to keep me safe from you hurting me? So I've got this false self that establishes itself this way. I am what I do, my identity, I am what I have, my stuff. And I'm really worried about what you're thinking about. I am what you think of me. What I have. I am what I do, I am what you think of me. And now I've got to I'm tortured by trying to get my reviews right. Because everyone's got to love me. If I'm working in a room with a hundred people, I was a musician, so we know that. If I'm working in a room with 100, 500 people, whatever, the only ones I notice are the ones that aren't getting off, the ones that I cannot uh motivate, right? And I was really good at crowd control. I was starting a few riots in my time. Anyway. So I like the celebratory part of life, but I don't like the lost part of life. And it is, we're we're we've all been losing stuff the whole time we've been alive. Lose your youth, use lose your innocence, lose sometimes. We lose our identity, lose our motive. Sometimes wonderful things happen and we think we're making them happen. It's just life, it's not personal, and I took everything personally, and I took everything as something I had to respond or react to, and or fix. I can help you with that. I can help you with that. So there's a Merton prayer that uh a friend sent me. I'm gonna read it to you. If I can find it. And it's about us at the end of that game. At the end of the game, you're frustrated, you're isolated because you have to be isolated to protect yourself, right? You have to be on an island. And it's all I mean mine. What does this have to do with me? Is that mine? What are you thinking of me? What do you what are they thinking? Oh god. So um here's a line. What we saw in thought, we really reap in experience. As your thinking goes, so does your experience go. If you're fear-based, and you're always fear-based, you're gonna attract things to you of that nature, a lower vibration, if you will.

SPEAKER_09: 7:55

And uh can't I find this.

SPEAKER_08: 8:09

So at the end of this, along the line, along the way, the addiction sets it. It could be booze, it could be drugs, it could be sex, it could be gambling, it could be any form, it could be eating, but that is the thing that insulates me from the pain I don't know that I'm in. So here's the Merton prayer. When we are reduced to a last extreme, there's no further evasion. The choice is a terrible one. It's made in the heart of darkness. When we who have been destroyed and seem to be in hell miraculously choose God. Even though I didn't know I was choosing God, I was I was choosing life, I was choosing to live. So, how do I deal with these ups and downs? Some days I deal with them really well, some days not so well, sometimes they deal with me. One way is it's not personal. The other way is the beast likes to remind me often what a heavy load you're carrying, Roger. Oh, Kathy, you're just doing it all, right? Kirsten, you've got a huge pile on your shoulders. In one sense, that's true. Heavy load, heavy load. Or is another way to look at it is call to love. I'm called to love in this situation, or I'm called to do nothing, or I'm called to be of service, right? The question is, what would you have me be not do? The argumentative me, the false self me always wants to do something, get into action. And the right response for me is don't do anything. Stop and ask the question. What would you have me be? That is the quality of consciousness. Be kind, be helpful, be charitable, be quiet, be loving, be forgiving, be understanding, non-judgmental, something like that. Any of those will work. And you'll find yours. And that's it's not the it's not a coping mechanism. It's a way to shift my consciousness from the perception that I'm not safe and everything is going to hell in a flume to no, everything's fine. Everything's just the way it should be. If it wasn't, it'd be some other way. Why is this happening? Because it's just happening. Do you have to be involved in it? First, first question is that any of my business? Right? There's enough stuff that's my business that I have to address without making stuff up. So things come, things go. Things come, things go. Our evolution is about all the things that have left us. The evolution is in the loss. How do I interpret the change? You know, may not want to think about it as loss, but it's change. You know? I'm not young anymore. I read across a picture of me in the 90s doing a big book study, and I had black hair. And the son of a bitch was that guy. But everything changes. Kids grow up, move, they change, right? If you have kids. People die. Loved ones die. So I need to have a concept of death that doesn't punish me, which has evolved over the years, right? And around uh around finances, you know, my finances, the the streams of the channels of revenue that are in my life, have been changing my whole life. But one thing that's remained constant is I've always had what I need in my time of need. So when financial insecurity shows up, I get to remind myself of what the truth is. That's a great question. When you're starting to spin out, what's the truth here? What's the truth? We're all safe right now. We all got a roof over our heads. Looks like no one's outside. Right? Comfortable, resent, no one's looking for you. Got a little quiet time with 18 of your closest friends? Safe place to discuss what's on your heart. What's on your heart? You know, and the fear and all the external referral and the dualism blocks what's on your heart. You think what's on your heart is your 401k. You think what's on your heart is what I'm getting, I'm gonna get this car fixed. You you know, I just can't be a slave to that. So I have to practice other ways of seeing, which will also produce other ways of being. Because I want to be, this is Jesus. I want to be in the world, but not of it. That's a challenge, isn't it? Because the world is screaming at us, you need this, fill in the blank, you need that, fill in the blank. You need it yesterday. What's you must be a failure because Kathy's got one and you don't have one. Pete's got one and you don't have one. Bill's got one and you don't have one. What's the matter with you? The truth is, there's nothing the matter with us. We some of us we've gotten confused, we've gotten distracted, we haven't ever had an opportunity to look at this thing we call our lives from a totally different angle. That's one of the gifts of that bottom we hit. That's one of the gifts of having this program. I got a way to deal with this stuff now. I have to find a different way to see all this, and that's what we're working on. And so we have a 10th and 11th step to monitor ourselves and see how we're doing through the day and at the at the beginning and the end of the day. It's a process and it takes practice. And as near as I can tell, um my whole life, that will be the practice. Uncovering, discovering, and discarding what doesn't work. And a lot of those things that are torturing us were put into us, they weren't of us. And so this is the unlearning that our recovery is. It's not about acquiring so much new information as it is getting rid of the stuff that doesn't work. Just get rid of the stuff that doesn't work. How do I get rid of the stuff that doesn't work if I'm powerless of it? You put God in that place and you practice the opposite. I'm I'm in security. Practice your faith. What do you believe is true? Find out. Talk to someone else, see what they do when they're scared. That's what we're about. That's what we're trying to figure out. So it starts with the false idea that there's something wrong with me. The only thing wrong here is the way I see the world. The way I see the world determines my experience of the world. So, in that sense, we're creating our own experience. We create our reality by our value system and the way we perceive things. That's the reality, because everyone on this, we got 18 people in this meeting. There's, I'm, I promise you, there's more than 18 realities here. Your reality is just what you believe to be is true. The next question is: is what I'm telling myself helpful or not? Does it serve me? Does it lift me? Does it evolve me, or does it depress me and devolve me? Does it keep me stuck? And again, I'm powerless to work on what we call our defects of character, but I'm not helpless. I have to choose. You and I are choosing all the time, sometimes consciously and sometimes unconsciously. That's when it looks like I have this reaction that comes out of left field. No, it doesn't, it comes out of my subconscious. It comes out of that fear and shame and that sense of inadequacy. So tell me uh what your experience is with what's wrong with me and what you've learned from it. Because it's trying to teach us stuff. So we'll open it up to your discussion now. Someone's gotta start.

SPEAKER_01: 16:41

I can start there. Ain't nothing wrong with me. How do you like that? Um, I'm gonna alcoholic addict of many colors, and uh we talk about what's wrong with us. Every time I focused on what was wrong with me, I could not function. I had to start looking for what is right with me. How does God see me? Because I can't distinguish the true from the false, right? So whenever I think my opinion is thrown away because I don't know what the truth is. So my son had to look at Muhammad Praham and say, what does Muhammad Prahma say about me? He says, I'm um the pinnacle of his creation, I am the the top of the food chain, if you want to call it that. Um he knows every hair in my head. He knows my spiral fumbles, so of course he knows every single thing about me. I can't hide anything from him. Then again, I don't have to hide anything from him. He accepts me anyway. No matter how bad my ego tries to convince me I'm the truth is that God don't care about what the ego is telling me. He knows the truth. So when I get connected with God's truth, my life straightens up. But like when I was having a hard time with you know life in general, when I was like disturbed, I would practice this step 10. I did that same thing instead of saying, What do I do? What do I do? I said, Okay, how would God have me be? How does he want me to be? He wants to be patient, be loving, be compassionate, be curious, be helpful, be calm, be detached, especially with like political things, be detached. Um, and most of all, he wants me to be protective of my thoughts. Because, like James Allen says, as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he, or so he is. So finding out what the truth is, if somebody's really upset and angry, I was in a meeting the other night and I got a 13-year medallion, and there was a guy that was just he was just going off and angry and upset. And I started talking to him. I've never had this happen before. Normally, when some guy was getting rageful and talking like that, I would like to back down and go, oh, I can't handle it. Instead, I just kept kept asking him questions. Why? Why? Why? Why do you feel that way? Why and eventually he calmed down. I have never been able to talk to somebody who's been in a rage and just it didn't affect me. It like bounced off of me. So I'm telling you, when you get that real, real, real connection, life is wonderful, really wonderful. And it's the truth about who God says you are that that really set me free. When I understood what God said about me, then I knew all that shit that I was telling myself, all lies. All lies. The ego just wants to lie to me, and I believe it. It's all bullshit. Thanks. I'll pass.

SPEAKER_08: 20:08

Thanks, Quinn. That James Allen riff is one of the universal themes in all the all the major and a lot spiritual practices you report yourself. As it is in your heart, so it will be in your life.

SPEAKER_04: 20:49

Maybe that's because I didn't take a drink last night, thanks to the program. I had one idea of life. I was the center of the universe, responsible for my own whatever happened to me. And then someone suggested some of us might want to get down on our knees in the morning and ask God to keep us sober. He wasn't instructing me to do this, he would just tell me this is what I do. And he's happy, joyous, and free, and I'll think about committing suicide. So maybe I'll do it his way. Just maybe. So I started to do those things. And then you presented me a program of 12 steps. Then you gave through a big book at me and said, read the black part. So I read the black part as best I could. Did the steps as best I could, and slowly over time, the program took over. So I sit on the edge of my bed, do my daily disciplines. I can't attend face-to-face meetings because I can't drive, because I'm too damn old and decrepit. I climb behind the wheel of a car, probably drive it through the front of a building. I live in a town in southern Arizona where a lot of old people did that. And I'm sitting here in the twilight of my years, and I'm going to meetings, doing the stuff that you people have instructed me to do over the years. And by and large, my head is clear. There are mornings I wish I didn't wake up. But there are other mornings where life is pretty darn good. So just keep doing the deal. God, I hated that expression. Do the deal, do the deal. Finally, I come to understand it and realize what the heck it means. Thanks for taking out your take taking your time to speak to us, Roger. Much appreciate it. Oh shut up.

SPEAKER_08: 23:16

Good to see you, good day. Good to see you. I'm glad you got up. But you know, this what Terry said an interesting thing, I think. And it it he said, some days I get up and I don't want to be, I don't want to wake up. Other days I wake up and it's pretty damn good. The only difference is the way I'm seeing it. The only difference is what I'm telling myself about it. Because it's the same damn day every day. The day starts when the sun comes up and ends when it goes down, whatever it is. There's 24 hours we all got. Most of it we're sleeping or eating or going to some form of work. And you just, you know, one of the things I tell myself when I'm getting backed up in this stuff is I can do anything for a day. I can do anything for a day. I just got to stay present. And the way we get tripped up, one of the most common ways is the beast. What Gwen is calling her ego drags you into the past or the future and keeps bringing you back and forth between those two. And that's when you feel most disconnected because you are disconnected. You're disconnected from the truth, from the power, from the possibilities. And you're reliving the past, which is dead, and you're resurrecting it from the grave and dragging it into this moment, and your brain doesn't know the difference. When it's not doing that, it's throwing you into the future, saying, No, you better get a plan, and now you're gonna stay safe. Better get a plan which is code for how you're gonna get your way. I mean mine. I mean mine, right? Thanks, Terry. What else?

SPEAKER_03: 25:09

Hey everybody, I'm Bill, uh Alanon Clutters Anonymous. Um, and as Gwen reminded me, Child of God. Um and uh Pastor Roger talked about uh what's that? Pastor Bill. I'm looking at your that's right, that's right. Um so, anyways, uh you talked, Roger, about um, you know, arguing, and that was sort of your mode. And mine is um approval. So I could really relate to you know what I am what people think of me. So um uh one of the things that's really helped me is the what you were talking about, what I've heard you say many times, you know, um when you're struggling with somebody, and sometimes my struggles are really like, why don't they like me? You know, which is really uh it just is what it is, you know. I realize you know, that's not a uh a good place to start, but um, it's it's this idea of God bless you, God change me. And for the longest time, that God changed me, what it meant to me was try harder. I was I gotta try harder, I gotta try harder. Well, actually, I feel like what I'm hearing from God now is don't try so hard. When you talked about who should I be, you know, maybe I just need to be quiet and stop being compel compulsive, you know, about reaching out to somebody um or something like that. Um, but uh I I have this, I have no idea, but I've got this relationship uh with my next door neighbor. I've been his neighbor for 18 years, and you know, we we got along. Um, but I don't know what happened this summer. There was a day uh that all of a sudden I just felt like this anger that he had. And I immediately went and said, try harder, you know, that I gotta reach out more, I gotta do something different. But um now I'm just trying to pull back a little bit, and then what I want to do in my heart too is to try to not be angry, not be resentful, not be judgmental about um the fact, but to but to try to be open and to be honest, you know, God, this was really hard, but also not to be um compulsively trying to get approval from this person. So um, anyways, uh I've really appreciated that um kind of uh it when you talk about having a new posture, it really is a new posture, and it's really hard to do, and uh it's hard, it's hard to change. But um, I do think uh as I open up and as God makes me aware of you know how I'm showing up with this with this person, with anybody, um, then uh I am seeing little changes slowly but surely. Um and uh so anyways, I'm really grateful for that. Um God bless you, got God change me. Um when I go to bed at night and I put my blinds down on that side, sometimes I'll just say, God bless my neighbor, you know. Um and uh so, anyways, um it's that approval piece. Um, and uh it is a lifelong thing that I've I've dealt with, and I'm grateful for this program. I'm grateful for all the wisdom and uh vulnerability that everybody shares here. And uh um thanks for this this meeting.

SPEAKER_08: 28:32

Good to see you, Bill. You know, they you you were talking about the ego's message is try harder. And that's exactly the opposite of what we need to do. We need to let. Try is about effort, let is about allowing, right? Just if I can image myself being in the stream of life, the flow of this force. I don't know what's supposed to happen or when it's supposed to happen. I just have to choose continually over and over, who do you want to be here? Who do you want to be? And that will give you the options for acting. Be kind. Well, what kindness look like? Be patient. What would that look like? Oftentimes, my my consistent response is be quiet. As it turns out, your opinion is of no significance here. You don't have to you don't have to have a vote in everything. Let it go. And so, you know, one of the slogans that just drove me nuts when I was new. Let go and let God. If I knew how to let go and let God, I wouldn't be here. First, I got to get a God, then I gotta figure out how to let go because I'm choking the life out of everything. So here's image. You remember the monkey bars on the playgrounds? Yeah, and you you grab one and you swing forward to grab another one. Then to grab the next one, you got to let go. And then you got to grab on, then you got to let go. The the question is, or the challenge is, what am I grabbing on to? What am I grabbing? What am I gripping? What am I letting? I know what I'm letting go of this old idea that doesn't work, but I'm it's literally a leap of faith. Because I don't know what's going to happen. I'm just trusting that if I keep going forward in this process, you guys have told me it's going to be okay. And then when you start having your own experience, that's when you start believing building your belief system. Because we all start out on a faith basis. I'm trusting that you guys are telling me the truth about your experience, and I'm finally getting to the point where I'm just, I'm going to try it. That's faith. Once I do it and I start working these steps and putting these new principles to work in my life, I have an experience. Now my belief starts to develop. And a lot of, I've been doing a lot of retreats lately, and a lot of times people are really confused with agreeing with ideas and having it be a belief. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't act like I believe it. We all say, not all, but many will say, I believe in God. I'm just trying to have a better relationship with God. Well, what's wrong with the one you have? What's is there do you need a new God? Do you need to adjust? Do you know what I'm saying? And it's it's uh it's operating without a parachute. That's what it feels like. And then you develop uh a timeline in history, a year, five, ten, fifteen, twenty, and you have a faith now and a belief that works, and you just are perfecting how you work it, how you allow it to come through you, how you allow it to change you. It that the hard part isn't accepting the new idea, the hard part is rejecting the old idea, habituated thought patterns and reactions, right? And it's just, I know it's not good for me, but I do it anyway. Why? Because I practice it for decades, so it's gonna take a while to disengage that and practice something new. And then when you're practicing and you're always failing, that's when the beast comes in behind you and goes, This isn't gonna work for you. You're too broken, you're too bad, you're too much of a sinner, you're too disgusting, whatever. It's just nonsense. You just this is the perseverance, this is the commitment. I'm gonna do this no matter what. And I'll do it poorly and I'll learn from that, and I'll do it really well and I'll learn from that. But I am classes in session. And so the deal is what's this trying to teach me? What is this trying to show me today? The situation, the circumstance, and you know, we talked about this a lot. The beast, the ego, which resides in your head, in your brain, is always comparing and contrasting. It's always judging, labeling, slapping, slapping labels on stuff without even thinking. Because it's just reacting. And I hear that noise, and I think that's me. And it's a big this is a big turn in your recovery. I'm not my thinking. Well, thanks, Bill.

SPEAKER_02: 33:33

I'm happy. Um Alanon. Ten years, yay. Um this weekend, but the weekend before. Um my husband went away. They did. We did. We're getting well together. Um, so not this weekend, but the weekend before. So my husband went away for four days and I was left on my own. And I was thinking about everything that everybody was saying and what you're saying, Roger, and thinking about I was sitting on the couch and thinking, okay, I have no bread. That's okay. I'll I don't need bread for the next four days. You know, uh, I I ran out of milk and be like, that's okay, I really don't need to drink any milk. You know, anything to avoid going to the grocery store. Anything. And so then this this voice started coming, this idea is like, you know, you are just really pathetic. I mean, people go to the grocery store all the time. You should be able to get off the couch and go to the grocery store. And it was like, I think what I'm feeling is shame. You know, I was just trying to feel this emotion in my body. And, you know, so I like for four days, I didn't go to the grocery store, didn't do any, you know, just it was really interesting. And so, um, but but when I sat with that, and I kept thinking, okay, why did I have that intense experience, you know, with all of that negativity and what was going on, and sitting with it and realizing, like, and asking God, like, what are you trying to show me something beyond this? And then it was this idea of like, I've never, and I'm not blaming this on my parents. I just my parents would just accept, like, my dad was afraid to fly, so we just simply won't ever fly. You know, that's just it. You know, my mom would do this. We're never going to try work. We'll just we just won't go because I cannot fly, you know. I'm not anything. But anyway, so I thought, oh my gosh, I think the word or I'm I'm ADD, I've got, I mean, just one excuse after another coming in there, hot and heavy. And finally I stopped and I thought this word discipline showed up. It was like, like, you might have to work this muscle a little bit and just do it. Just do it, you know. So today I decided I would go to the grocery store. Bravo, bravo. The power was out and the store was shut. But Phil did give me credit for trying.

SPEAKER_08: 36:18

I think we should do is I think you should ask Phil to leave town again so you can get a do-over.

SPEAKER_02: 36:24

I was like, I said, I called him, I said, Are you sitting down? He said, I said, What shouldn't I get ready to go into the grocery store? Do you need anything? And he's giving me this list. And I said, Oh, never mind. There's no power at the grocery store. And it was like all around the area. So it wasn't like I could just go to a different grocery store. But it was just, but sitting with that and waiting, thinking, wow, I just think there's a muscle here I need to to work on, is what this sense of is just instead of just accepting like there's no other options, it's just it. That's the way I am. I'm always going to be this way, you know, and there's no freedom in that. So it was um, it's it's just been kind of incredible. So yeah.

SPEAKER_08: 37:05

You know, it's interesting because in our worlds, we all have really busy worlds, right? And so when I get this break, four days, there's a there's a quality of solitude to that, right? I don't have any responsibilities except for me for four days. Oh, how beautiful. Instead, the beast comes in the back door and starts beating the hell out of me and ruins the whole experience. So it's back, you know, you did the same thing that I do. It's what is this trying to show me? As soon as you do that, you create it an intervention on the noise that's going on, and you uh open to a different approach. Yeah, thank you. Tom, were you gonna share? I saw you leaning in.

SPEAKER_05: 37:54

Yeah, as always, um you really get everything going, and the shares are uh are so powerful. It's interesting. Uh Kathy mentioned being the home alone. I had that experience last week. My wife's at a bridge tournament, so I had five days. I was kind of on a retreat in my own home with Kept It Quiet and No TV. But there's a there's a lot that everybody said. And um, well, you said that there's um I think it'll be there's something wrong with me. I remember way back when I really made it up, like maybe I wasn't good enough, wasn't smart enough, or whatever reason it wasn't true. But then I made up a story that I'm gonna then show everybody else. So I had tons of reasons, tons of successes, whether it be sports or corporate or my own business or all kinds of things, but there's no joy in it. And there's a tremendous angst and fight to try to prove that, oh, I'll sh look at me do this to prove that there's not something wrong with me. And then, oh, by the way, you're so jacked up as well. I have a couple of cocktails and or more than a couple, and then just start it up and go again the next day. I'm an alcoholic. But the freedom, and then I really, I really um, you know, what was beautiful, and I think something Kathy just said was kind of when we talk about beliefs, we believe something, but how many of us will really say we really admit I we admitted we were powerless over alcohol, our lives have become unmanageable. I couldn't say that. No effing way. My ego is so big, nobody's nobody's gonna tell me I'm not it it I wouldn't do it, and then it's like you come to believe that a power greater than ourselves made us just turn our wills over to God. Those are beliefs, those are what we're really living by. I wasn't really experiencing those, I wasn't letting those get into my just as as Kat said, she experienced that last week. When I experience those and I give those the chance to true truly surrender, as you said. Wow, there's miracles that are show that just shown up in my life and continue to show up in my life, and I'm still the same, you know, imperfect person, but I'm God has allowed me and given that gift to me to be that imperfect Tom. So that's just the perfect me. But I get the steps in 12 have a spiritual awakening as a result of steps. I'm not reading the steps. There's a difference between, oh, I believe that these steps. Well, no, no. I know this is this is gonna change. This is gonna this changed my life, and so it's just really, really, you know, there's a lot. You said there's a whole bunch, and uh, but it's just powerful, and it's powerful the miracles now that the space that I'm available. There's so many things I won't mention the issue instances, but there's so many things where I can show up and be there, and issues in people's lives are showing up, and I can be a space for them because here's what I've experienced. And then maybe that's all that I say, don't have to say much, it'd be the presence for them. So so thank you, Roger. Thank you, everybody. I I look forward to this every couple of weeks. Powerful space. I'm I'll pass.

SPEAKER_08: 41:17

Thanks, Tom. You know, the uh correct me if I'm wrong, but that I'll prove to the world that I am someone, right out of Bill's story. I prove to the world I am someone, and then when I get my success, it's never satisfying. Because then I need to do more. I need to be better. I need to be, you know, I need to make 10% more this year, 20% more. And the carrot is always dangling down the road in front of me. And there's no satisfaction. In fact, there's a deepening sense of frustration and futility. And so you get the end of that and you go, Is this all there is? I built my business, I got my money, I got my house, I got all my stuff, and I'm empty inside. All of this stuff for me, all of these things growing up and every day for the last 77 years, um has been God calling. It just because I run into something, it doesn't work, and that's the opportunity. God calling, it's God is saying, No, this doesn't work, and then I go, Well, let me try this, and then it goes, No, that doesn't work, let me try this, right? And you end up going, I give up, and God's going, fine, now we can do some business, right? Just amazing. Who else?

SPEAKER_06: 42:40

Uh Andy alcoholic. Andy, yeah, the God calling thing you just talked about. I I I it searched in a lot of places, and I never realized that's what it was. And then I get to that bottom and realize with with a little bit of time with that, like that's what always what I was searching for. It was always the search for God. I just didn't know it. Um, and you talked about being a victim. It clicked for me of like how the lengths that I would go to in order to be a victim, like lifelines coming from all over the place. Oh, can I help? Let me do this. Do you need to submit? No, no, I got it. I got it. Only so that at the end I could say, Can you believe that I had to do everything? You know, it's like insane. I don't know how people live with me. And that piece, and then the other one is like, I am what you think of me. I mean, that still crops up the insanity in that one, though, is like as if I have this gift that I know what other people are thinking. I can read minds and I know what you're thinking, and it just so happens what you're thinking about me is is not so good.

SPEAKER_08: 43:47

And like it's interesting, isn't it? Because I think I can read your mind, but it's never anything positive.

SPEAKER_06: 43:54

No, and it's like that still will come up a little bit, but the shift where I know that there's growth is I no longer have any interest in acting on what you think of me, you know, trying to change your mind to a different way or put on a show. It was always a show for me to try to shift what I thought other people thought because I didn't think enough of me. And so that what I come to with this and the full circle with that search for God, like I'm safe, I'm okay. I always have been. And in this moment right now, like I'm okay. I don't have to worry about what other people think. I'm I'm all right. That's a great feeling.

SPEAKER_08: 44:36

You know, also the insulation about what other people are thinking is I'm protected by if I know what I'm doing and what the motive is and what are the principle or principles behind it, I'm fine. I expect people not to believe me or agree with me. That's not a problem for me, because I don't need you to agree with me for me to be okay. Right? So if I know what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, what's the motive, and what are the principles that inform it, I'm great, I'm good. And when someone comes at me, because I do a lot of stuff that falls out of the realm of teaching, a lot of people get pissed at me because they don't like the message, but it's not my problem. You know, it's their problem, and I understand it's it's projection. You know, I got this sponsor and I I really love him until he tells me something I don't want to hear, and instead of owning that I don't want to hear it and resist it, I push it back on him. So who uh who else? Thank you, Andy.

SPEAKER_10: 45:54

I'm Linda Alcoholic.

SPEAKER_08: 45:56

Hi, Linda.

SPEAKER_10: 45:57

Um hi, I'm uh I'm not sure if my internet's real stable. So if I cut out, let me know. Um, this past week I celebrated um 38 years of sobriety. And I was thank you, I was thinking back to that girl that came into the program that was so lost, just lost and um down on myself. But anyway, and and how different I am today, due to the Alcoholics Anonymous in the program of Al Anon, that um just listening to what all of you have said, I could just agree and resonate with all of it. You know, it it is it's so true that when I ask myself, what's wrong with me, that's my shame-based thinking that comes up and tells me that there's something wrong with you. And that's the way that I work step 10 for years and years, and so I just quit I quit working it because I couldn't really um sleep after I thought about what's wrong with me, and I started making a list, it'd be so long and I'd feel so bad. Finally, I just gave up on step 10. But now it now it's different because you know I think I'm so spiritual and I'm really trying to do the next right thing. But today, when I was at Walmart and I was going to check out, and there's a super long line, and this lady tried to get in front of me. I said, It's my turn. I'm like, get out of the way, it's my turn to check out. I thought, yeah, there you go. Not so spiritual after all, but it's just it makes me laugh at myself, and I really what really hit me tonight was God calling. Yep, I look back over the last 70 plus years of my life and I think that was God calling me all along. That was God that told me to get into Alcoholics Anonymous. I didn't want to go there. I was in Al Anon. I didn't I want to go to the other side, the dark side, you know, and and um I don't know, it just all worked out exactly the way it was supposed to, and I feel so grateful. I feel so grateful. I was at my son's house, he also has 20 some years of sobriety, and he says, Mom, you really have changed. And I'm like, you know, and then I thought, of course, have I really changed that much, or does he just see me differently? You know, because I know I see my parents a lot differently now, but right so I'll pass with that. I'm just really grateful to be here.

SPEAKER_08: 48:57

Thanks, Linda. You know, that 10th step, just a note on that, it's not telling me what's wrong with me, it's telling me what needs to be adjusted. It's it's identifying perhaps a flaw today was was impatience. It's just saying note to self, practice patience tomorrow, more patience tomorrow. Watch for that, you know. And I think it's it's it's uh it's a benign adjustment, it's not a punishment.

SPEAKER_00: 49:30

Who else evening everybody Gareth, addict alcoholic?

SPEAKER_09: 49:45

Hey Gareth.

SPEAKER_00: 49:49

Well, what a pleasure this is. I I I can't even believe like just every share has been so powerful. Um I'm definitely walking around in the world at the moment like the child that's hurt, you know, and there's been a situation at the moment where yeah, you know, like I'm yeah, I have been hurt, right? And I've isolated and retreated back, which I'm noticing these patterns that I do that. So when you talk around, you know, that and being in this world and still fighting to be somebody in it, I think a lot of my stuff is still coming down to the fact of I don't feel seen. But the problem is, is I'm looking in the wrong places. It's not that I'm not being seen, it's just I'm searching for something in a place that has no availability to give it to me.

SPEAKER_09: 50:50

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 50:51

This is a big thing for me. And I was at this meeting this week, and there was a it was like we were reading and I have all the evidence, right? I've dealt with this situation, I've walked away from it. Every time I've walked out of my building this week, my high power couldn't have been more obvious. I walk out yesterday, and the name of the person that's caused all of this problem is slapped on this van in front of my building. There is their name, and under it is 777. I go out the day before, and then on there is this van that's got 3333 across it. You know, like the the endless supply of my higher power being there for me is so powerful for me, but still I don't want to trust it. I'm still searching for something in places that have no availability to give me what I need. And actually, what I need is meetings like this, where I have spiritual people that are engaging on a very um loving sense. And, you know, I had this phrase this week that um I heard, and it was in the To the Families chapter, and it was um saying here, you know, that they would have now admire him for who he is trying to be rather than what he's trying to get out of life. But why am I still trying to take from life when I know I want to be? I think it's because I'm still trying to, I still think that I'm still trying to unpack everything from my childhood and not, you know, and fight feel that to be seen I need to be, I need to, you know, be this amazing person in life rather than generous of spirit, kind of heart, loving, tolerant, kind. I love that, I love that prayer you taught me years ago, bless them, change me. I use that all the time. But I'm really laxing at the moment with this being in the being of the world.

SPEAKER_08: 53:00

And the right you hit a really important point. You know, I have history, and that what you're trying to shake off is that shame we got when we're little boys. And so the beast says, your answer is out here. Materialism. I want to be seen, I want to be known. No, I want to be loved, I want to be loving, right? You can't get love until you give love. But it's so important because you identified it, and it is this I'm asking these things that are finite and incomplete to complete me, and they can't, and I can't break the cycle because I'm not willing yet, or don't have a concept yet that I'm willing to throw myself at the GOD, the higher power concept. Am I gonna trust that, or am I gonna trust this going around repeating the same thing over and over until it gets exhausted, or I get drunk, or I blow my brains out. Right. Good to see you, my friend.

SPEAKER_09: 54:03

Yeah. Who else?

SPEAKER_08: 54:20

You notice the universality in the shares? We all have this piece. I'm not enough. I gotta prove myself instead of I am enough and I am acceptable, just the way I am. Words and all. If God is unconditional love, what am I worried about? You. I'm worried about you and their opinion of me, right? Process It takes courage. It takes time.

SPEAKER_07: 54:54

Who else all alcoholic? Hey Bob. Yeah. Hey everybody. Yeah, I I um also echo the the shares tonight are fantastic. And um you know, when I think about what is wrong with me or what was wrong with me, um sometimes still is is uh I don't know what's wrong with me. And um all the things that I think are wrong with me are you know not even the right not even in the realm of what is really going on. Um and I've got that false self and that e that is uh the false self and the beast that is fighting like crazy to hang on to my ego and my victimhood and my martyrdom and all of those things that um you know swirl around in my life um and got me to that to that to that dark time where