The Gathering With Roger B.
The Gathering’s talks are generally tied to one or more of the 12 Steps, but are always guided by spiritual concepts, principles and ideas common to most faiths. Topics are drawn from a variety of sources: the 12 steps, many of the well-known wisdom texts, science and other teachers that speak to a spiritual solution to life's challenges. About Roger B. Roger has been in recovery for over 46 years and has spent thousands of hours in service, sharing his experience, strength and hope. He has created curriculum for treatment centers, and lead workshops and retreats throughout the United States and Canada. Roger is a Certified Spiritual Director, and offers insight into spiritually-based living skills that are relevant to all people – whether in recovery or not. Roger is the first to admit that his long-term sobriety was brought about by the “trial-and-error method.” His experience reveals what has worked, and - perhaps more importantly - what has not worked, but taught him valuable life lessons. Roger B. and The Gathering with Roger B. are not affiliated, or endorsed by any third parties or 12-step programs. The Gathering on Zoom first and Third Wed 7pm CT id 728-200-4166 password 513915 downloads at www.gstl.ecwid.com
The Gathering With Roger B.
#90 Fear Set in Motion
What is the block to all progress? FEAR! The beast will use fear and shame to keep you in the past and Future, never here;now! I have a thought, the thought informs the action and the action generates the consequence. Its not a mystery Like Begets Like - You reap what you Sow, its the law of the universe. Also has a great group discussion.
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Roger, alcoholic, October 11th, 1978. Last weekend I celebrated uh 47 years of continuous sobriety. Not air free, but continuous sobriety. Not exactly an upward trending trajectory, but we got there. One bloody idea at a time. I'm going to read this. I know everyone on this meeting is probably familiar with this, but I want to I want to set something up with it. There's a solution. Almost none of us like the self-searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of our shortcomings, which the process requires for successful consummation. So I don't have to like the steps, I just have to do it. But we saw that it really worked in others. Have I? Have I met someone who's recovered, another woman who's recovered, another man who's recovered? Do I know anyone that's living this way of life and enjoying it? Thriving? And we had come to believe in the hopelessness and futility of life as we had been living it. Have I? That's a step one question, isn't it? Hopeless futility. And I have to know that for me, which requires introspection. It requires you and I being honest with ourselves, putting those questions on our heart, not in our head, because we all know the right answer. But that's not maybe the real answer, right? So when therefore we were approached by those in whom the problem had been solved, how would that be? That might be a sponsor, that might be a meeting you're in, a group you're with, and you're surrounded by a number of people that are really doing this thing. If that's true, I've sniffed, I've intuited there is a solution, there's a way out of this. So if that's true, there's nothing left for us but to pick up the simple kit of spiritual tools laid at our feet. The steps. And it's important to understand, or it was for me anyway, this wasn't going to happen in a vacuum. So this metaphor, the tools laid at our feet, in the seventh, in the seventh chapter, working with others, talks about my job as a sponsor. And I'm to get you in conversation, see if you're interested, determine if you want to know, then share some of my story. And if you're sponsored, I share more of my story. And then if he finally gets to the point, he says, Well, what the hell did you do? Then I take him a reader's digest version through what the steps are asking me to do. And I lay those tools at his feet. Because he has to make a decision, or she has to make a decision. We have to make a decision to pick up the damn tools. They're not going to jump up and jump into us, right? We have to bring them in. It's like uh it's like I want a house and I'm thinking, this is so cool. I got some Lakeview property and I'm gonna get a house. And so the day the house is supposed to be live, I'm up on the site and semis start pulling up. One's got a whole bunch of block, one's got a cement mixer, some cement, one's showing up with shingles and roofing and trusses and all this stuff. And I'm going, where's my damn house? It's right here. And then the last thing they do is they unload about an eight-foot toolbox and they say, Hey, everything you need to put this house together is right here. Have fun. But no one's told me how to use the tools. And uh it's funny how we learn this or how we begin with it, because my first example of this was my old man. He got sober 10 years before me, and he never talked to me at all about my drinking or my lifestyle. Never said a word. If you have children, you know how hard that must be to not help them with your wisdom, because you're afraid they're gonna fall into the traps, maybe that some of I have, some of us have. So his example needed no words. And I knew because I grew up with him. I was his bartender. I watched Scotch and Perkinset take him out, and I watched A put him back together. No words were necessary. The demonstration was so damn loud, it was impossible to ignore. I'm glad for my pop, but not for me. That's not for me, you know. And what the beast says, you know who the beast is. It's that voice that's always trying to kneecap you, that voice that's always trying to undermine you, that voice that is rooted in fear and shame. I would sit and watch my dad, I go watch him at one meeting, speaker meeting or something, I say, so this is what you do now? Instead of clinging to a bottle, you're clinging to that stupid blue book and the podium. Yeah. I just I couldn't get it. I couldn't see it. Because you can't get this from watching it. You can't get it from the outside because it's an inside job. And until I put those things to use, I don't know because the steps are experiential. You have to do them to get an experience. You can't think your way through them. You have to act your way through them. So it's a messy business, as most of us found out. So then they report this. Here's a little vision for you. We found much of heaven and have been rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence of which we'd not have even dreamed. Now, those of you who have been around for a while, you know this. Um, I don't have any idea how this happened. I know what I did. I enabled it to happen because we have to make a decision to offer ourselves up for change. And change means redemption, right? I'm gonna become a different man or woman. And uh this was not my plan. What my life has become, it's not my plan. None of it was my plan. What I did was I just taught myself to just do the next thing that's put in front of you. So, everyone, like we talked about last week, life's the teacher, I'm the student, right? So here we come. The great fact is just this, nothing less. That we've had deep and effective spiritual experiences, which means, in their jargon, a personality change at depth. And that change and those changes have revolutionized my whole attitude towards life, toward our fellows, towards God's universe, in case you don't know what that means. The central fact, the defining fact of our lives today is the absolute certainty that our creator has entered into our hearts and lives in a way which is indeed miraculous. Indeed, miraculous, really. I used to read that when I was new as Hearts and Lives. But my life is a projection of my interior. It lives in me. The truth lives in you, the divine spark. That is you, your spirit, your soul. We all have it, but it's been obscured by a lot of elements of our uh culture and our of the things we've been taught, directly or indirectly, right? So that's the central fact of their lives. That's not the central fact of my life when I read this. Because I'm Roger centered, I'm self-centered. This is a radical idea. But they're telling us the truth on page 25 of all things. There are things that have happened that are miraculous, and those things are miraculous because there's no human explanation for them. Why am I here today? I I had multiple opportunities to be dead. Multiple. I almost drank myself to death by the time I was 30. But I had other things that could have precipitated my death, the people I was running with and the things I was doing and how I was doing it, the people I was doing it with, right? So he, this power, if you're if you're down, if you're negative with the male pronoun, change it. Don't bitch and moan about it, just change it. He, she, it, them, whatever, the mystery has commenced to accomplish those things for us which we can never do by ourselves. Things are happening to me that are inexplicable. I had no plan to stop drinking. My plan was to drink till I died. That was I was on that mission when I was intervened upon. God came and got me, kind of idea, right? So if you're serious alcoholic as we were, that's such a funny lie, isn't it? That's like if you're kind of pregnant, we were in a position where life was becoming impossible. True or false? True or false. Earlier in the page, we'd come to believe in the hopelessness and futility of life. They're reiterating the question: where you are you done with this? Is life becoming impossible? Not is it hard, is it a little lumpy? Are you are you ready to throw in the towel? And if we pass into the region from which there is no return through human aid, we had but two alternatives. One was going to the bitter end, blotting out the consciousness of our intolerable situation as best we could. Drink till you die. The other to accept spiritual health. I don't even know what the hell that means, right? But they're saying it's either or. It's not one or two, it's not 1.5 or 1.75 or 2.3, it's one or two. I don't like that, but it's the truth. You watch people die here. You watch people go away and never come back. You don't know what happened. Some of them were at funerals, right? Celebrations of life, a life that was wasted, that was that was eaten alive by addiction. So am I in this position where life's becoming impossible? This is an interesting line to ponder, I think. No return through human aid. Wait a minute. Aren't those men and women in my meeting human aid? Isn't my sponsor human aid? No, those are the vehicles that God is channeling through. They're not the power. The power is coming through them. And the power has revolutionized their lives in a lot of situations. And situations like people that are should be dead, they're alive, right? So, what is spiritual help? It's it's it's help of a higher order. If you just look at it in terms of principles, values, morals, just higher values, higher morals. I don't believe in God, but I believe in peace. I believe in love, I believe in the truth. Okay, pick one, go for it. So this is uh, I think one of the most profound lines in the book. This we did because we honestly wanted to. Gut check. Do I really want this? Second one. We're willing to make the effort. I have had so many people sit with me and go, I really want to change, I really need a better life, I really need to do this. And then they don't do it. Because they're not willing to make the effort. Because the effort is it's it's not hard. It's not effort like strenuous, it's the effort of getting honest with myself. That's the problem. It's the this I can't get honest with myself because I have this thing I call the beast that blocks me from the consideration. It's looking for all the disqualifiers. You are a bunch of hypocrites. I know some of the stuff you've said. That's hypocritical as hell, right? I'm a cynical. I think you're just drinking Kool-Aid, and I'm not a joiner. I say things, the beast talks to me like that. What's the real block? Fear. Fear is the real block. The beast uses two things to control us fear and shame. Fear is I'm not safe. Any version of that. Low grade, high grade, to I'm uncomfortable to I'm paralyzed, right? And shame is I'm unlovable, I'm unworthy. So God, I'm sure this would because God was fine for you, but it's not going to work for me because I have done the unforgivable. Even though I've heard you report things you've done that were worse than anything I did, in my world, I have judged me and sentenced me to death because I don't deserve it, and it'll never happen for me because I'm so, so bad. And so until I get past that fear, if you never get past it, you're never going to get clean. If you do get clean, abstinent, you're never going to have any peace. And it's settling. I don't, I don't settle well. It's either all or nothing. I'm that kind of guy. It's either on or off. It's either full speed or no speed. So when I'm posed the question, what is the fear about admitting to myself, allowing in this idea that I'm powerless over the substance? I'm powerless to manage my life. What is the big deal? Well, then the beast grabs your social instinct, your security instinct, and your sex instinct, and it tells you, this is why you're unworthy. And it pulls out the history machine and starts replaying all the bad things you've done, all the naughty things you've done, and all the things you did that were bad that you didn't get caught for. And so I'm unredeemable. And I'm locked into this fear and shame-based consciousness. Some of it we we grew into, some of it we were taught to feel that way about ourselves from life situations, circumstances, and the modeling we got when we're little kids. Fear is the bitch. What does it say in the book? It says fear set in motion. How does fear set anything in motion? Fear is an emotion. And it's in the future tense. With me? Fear is a future tense emotion. And I have accepted that story that the beast has made up that hasn't happened yet, and I'm reacting to it emotionally and physiologically as if it's happened. That's the power of fear. The way I get around that is I find something to begin to believe in, to begin to trust. And when you think about the difference between faith and belief, when we first pick up these tools and try and go forward, it's on nothing else but faith. And I told myself I don't have faith, but I had faith in the bottle, I had faith in the power of intimidation, intellect, argumentation. I had all kinds of faith, just in the wrong things. So I don't know that. So what do I do? Well, I go, I guess I'll try it. When I decided to go for this thing in the meetings with these old guys, it was faith and nothing else. Because I believed these, they said, I believed they were doing what they said they were doing because I've been wanting them. I've been wanting them. And they were different. Not all of them, but there's a group of men in there that were real different. So this is a Joe and Charlie riff, but it's about faith and belief. So I'm watching a commercial and they come on and say, see these nice white jeans covered with grass stains? Watch this. And they throw it in the washer and they go, try this. And they put it in, they pull it out of the washer, no stains, and it's snow white. So when I go to the grocery store and I say, I think I'll try it. I think I'll try that detergent. That's faith. After I use it and I get the same results, when I go back to buy that detergent again, it's belief. Because my belief is based on my experience. And I believe nothing will work because I've done nothing to have it work. And the other side of that is everything I've tried didn't work because it was based in their own principles. You're set in motion, trains the circumstances. I felt I didn't deserve. But in the beginning, didn't I set it rolling? Yes, I did. You know how you set it rolling? An idea. I cop an idea, I create the emotion with the idea of fear or hope or joy or sadness, and then I act out of that consciousness. And that action produces a consequence. It's impartial. The universe is impartial. It's set up that way. So you can't blame God. And I want to blame everyone but me. I want it to be you, I want it to be them, I want it to be that shitty childhood, I want it to be lack of money, too much money. I want I'm spoiled, I'm entitled, I'm impoverished. It's just I just needed to be something out there. Because I don't want to be the beast, doesn't want me to be accountable for my mistakes. Because if I become accountable for my mistakes, I may change, and then the beast can't work me over with the fear and shame. So we start out, and every one of those steps is another degree of fear and shame I have to I have to address. Do you believe in God? Second step? No, I don't. Are you willing to believe in God? No, I'm not. Well, then you're stuck because atheists can't do this. When I become willing to believe in the possibility, that's the minimum entry price. I'm willing to believe in the possibility. Now you've shifted. I know where the idea came from, but where did my willingness to try it come from? That's the divine interaction. And that pain that drives us here is the divine discontent. It's God calling. It's God calling, but I don't have a relationship with that. So I don't know how to interpret it. The problems of my life are of my making. And even if it's something that I had nothing to do with, the reason I'm suffering is because of me and the way I'm looking at this and thinking about it. Do you get what I'm saying? So even when something happens, it isn't, I'm not, I'm just a victim. Someone ran at him with their car. Someone's robbed me, okay? I didn't create that. But what I do as a response to it, I create. What do I think about what happened? That's what creates the mood. So I got robbed and beaten by some black guys back in the 60s, early 70s. And so from then on, don't trust any black people. You know, didn't have anything to do with me being down in a part of town that a white boy shouldn't have been in, making a drug deal at two in the morning. And not surprisingly, you got the shit meat out of you and stolen, and I didn't even get the dope. So what do I do with that? I put it in a nice sandwich of prejudice and bias. And then that is my set. So anytime I see a group of black guys, I seize up. I get afraid. No, not really afraid, alert. Yeah, because I'm not afraid. Men aren't afraid. And it just goes on and on. What's the fear of the third step? There's nothing hurtful about it. It just says, Are you in or you out? I'm offering myself. That's my thinking and my actions to the care of this power to shape me as I needed to be shaped. But nothing's happened. That happens in four through twelve. That's the real shaping process. So and I don't think we're ever gonna, I don't think we're supposed to get rid of fear. I think what we're supposed to do is learn how to manage it. The shame you can get rid of, but the fear is built into the anatomy, it's built into the amygdala, it's part of our construction. So later on, when the fear is a thing that I'm always avoiding, then what happens when I avoid my responsibilities? The accountability comes like this. Instead of me making a choice, then the circumstance makes a choice. You're up against well, now you're going to court. Because that$100 ticket you didn't pay is now$400. And they're suspending your license. Really? Okay. That kind of thing. The beer doesn't, the beast, the beast doesn't want us to change. But if we're going to grow, we have to change. But I can't work on things that I'm powerless over, like my fear, my shame, my dishonesty. I can't work on those directly. I work on them indirectly. By when the fear is there, I practice some aspect of my faith, tolerance or forgiveness or whatever. And when the shame's there, I take it apart and I ask them, what's the truth? The truth is that's a damn lie. It's rooted in an event that did happen, but it's distorted. And I'm not buying it. And you it has power over you until you change the behavior. You know, I was a habitual, chronic, prolific liar all my life. So that took a long time to change. It changed slowly. I'm lying less. Then honesty came in, and I had to tell Kathy the conversation we just had, I made that shit up. Sorry. It's just like, okay. And then this is 10-step stuff. I lied and go, God, you just lied to Kirsten. You just lied to Lindsay and Bobby Lynn. And did it again. That's the idea, right? And then the beast says, Hey, that's you because you've never changed. And then I'm talking to you and I'm hearing it. I'm talking to Tom and I'm I just little voice go, This you're making this shit up, Roger. But I still don't have the courage to put the plug in. So then I have to make it uh an apology or an amend to Tom, depending on the degree and level of the distortion or the harm. And then when I finally grow in this practice, the practice of what? Self-evaluation, inventory, ten stuff, self-esist, dishonesty, resentment, or fear. When I get better at that, I can hear it coming. And when it's just an idea, I can change it. Because it's not power, it's a choice. I'm just going to be honest. If I can't be honest, I'm just going to shut up. Right? So on the other end of this, the fear becomes a teacher. And the the circumstances of my life become God calling. You're up against it, you're stressed, you're you're scared, you're going through a tough time, a challenging time. And you're going to get through it. You know why? Because you've gotten through everything. You're going to get through this too. But it goes much faster if I just say, show me. What am I being asked to learn? And it's always God calling. You place something ahead of me, God is saying. You play, you started tasting money. You started chasing relationships. You started tasting fame. Whatever it is. You made you created a false God, an idol. And you're suffering because of your choice, not because God is punishing you. So we're back to this idea. I'm not punished for my thinking or my actions. I'm punished by them. This is accountability. Now I'm responsible. If I can buy that, this this cloak of victimization that I've been wearing my whole life starts to fall away. So let's have you guys share. What have you learned about fear? And what it how how how do you deal with it when it attacks you? No shame. Floor's open. It's universal. Everybody here has to dealt with their fear. If you don't deal with it, it deals with you. So you have experience. Don't be afraid. Share it.
SPEAKER_07:Hi, I'm Kathy.
SPEAKER_06:Hi Kathy.
SPEAKER_07:Hi. You know, it it was actually fear that really drove me deeper into the twelve steps. Because um once my daughter got clean and sober, then the what ifs came in. And that fear was every bit as paralyzing as when she wasn't clean and sober. And I just I mean, like I remember just waking up like in this cold sweat thinking, what if, what if, what if? And I thought I I I'm gonna have to have some tools to deal with that. And so fear is the very thing that drove me into really embracing those steps. You know, on a on a whole different level. So that's and um you know, we you know the acronym future events aren't real. Um I heard that at a meeting, and that was helpful. Um because I could go into the future.
SPEAKER_02:Another acronym, forgot everything's all right.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, so that was just like so I think over time it's really um enjoying this moment this day to the best of my ability. And and and and and having things that I do, you know, like when fear becomes wants to try and take hold, you know, is having some things in my toolkit that I do instead, so they don't feed it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, another way of thinking about fear, we have a faculty, the ability to imagine, but the beast uses it against us because it uses the imagination to create the horror story. And the horror story is always in five hours the next day, next week, next month. So the what ifs come in, and I'm not here anymore. And right now, here in this moment, is the only time I can pray, it's the only time I can talk to someone, it's the only time I can inventory, it's the only time I can practice change. Because the truth is, right now, regardless of what's going on in our lives, right now in this moment, you're safe, you're held, you're loved, you have everything you need. Right in this moment. Just don't stay here very often. Go ahead, Barb. Thanks, Kelly.
SPEAKER_03:Um, thanks, Roger. Uh some of the things that stood out when you started to read on page 25. Um, I think about when I came in, how I watched that very first sponsor and my grand sponsor. And um, and they did use some words, you know, but but their actions were uh like houses are burning, you know, and people are losing jobs and there's death. And and I'm like, why are they still smiling? Like, what the hell's going on here? You know, I thought that they were maybe nuts, I don't know. Um, but but they they were a demonstration for sure. And although I could not look at it at that time as a demonstration, I just thought like they're goofy. Um the other thing that you uh what you read is like uh when we honestly want to and willing to make the effort, and um I honestly want to, and sometimes I don't want to work this hard, I just don't, and I'm in a valley with some of that, you know. I want to receive all the gifts and blessings, and I just don't want to work real hard, so that's where that's where I am. Um and as far as as the fear, um uh what happens to me still, and and uh pretty frequently is when I don't Know something at work? Like this is my job. I should I should know this. And then then it starts twirling. What do you think they think about this? You were you uh they put you in this role for a reason, blah, blah, blah. And it just, you know, if I don't stop right there and address it, which sometimes I don't, I'm going warp speed. And uh if I don't address it, I'm in trouble. And when I do address it, you know, and and sit in the the truth of all of that. Um and I and one of the things that I'll I'll say to myself is Barb, everybody's learning something every day. Like, why can't you why can't you give yourself a little grace? Like you've been learning since you were an infant. Everybody's learning something all the time. Why are you any different? Knock it off, you know, and um, so that that's a a fear that I uh go to more than I care to admit. Thanks for the topic.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and the truth is, to your point, we're learning every day. So what we're learning is what doesn't work, and sometimes we're learning what does work. The other piece you made a point about was, and by the way, everything's changing all the damn time. And the beast wants to grab that great day you had and wants to replicate it tomorrow. And when you don't, it says, See, this doesn't work. There's an expression that that was in the rooms when I came in. It was are you doing the work? Are you in the work? That doesn't sound fun to me. You know, it's like work, I got a sore back, I'm sweating, I'm dirty. Work, I don't know how to do the work. I don't, it's not that I'm lazy, I'm terrified and I don't know it. So I've talked to guys this way. I say, where are you in the process? That's different. Where are you in the process? Not are you in the doing the work? The work is suspending your disbelief. It's not making lists. You already know the answers to all the damn questions. When you're doing a four-step, you already know the answer. You already know who and what you're pissed at. You know what you're afraid of, you know the things you've done that are that are not acceptable. You're gonna get an A. Don't worry about it. But things that the beast sets sets up in us are the things that make us walk. This is gonna be scary. I don't like change, but you're changing all the time. I like change that I like. And what is the point of this? I can't see what I'm gonna change into. Am I gonna like the new me? And I don't know this thing about you know, this fellowship will grow up among you. You know, I'm in a room with a bunch of old guys. They're in their 60s and 70s, that was 30. I'm the old guy now. And the young guys look at me like, you're the old guy, right? Yes, I am, but I'm a I'm a live old guy. Who else? Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:I'm Tom, I'm an alcoholic. Hey, Tom. Hey everybody. Uh, yeah, this is uh you always have a um just a ton of things to think about. And uh, yeah, I'm always kind of sitting here thinking about okay, how can I really have a really powerful share? But I just I I I really I know I really do that. It's it's yeah. I really want to impress you people. Yeah, I really something real profound. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02:I mean a room full of people that have been absolute failures, and I want to be the lead.
SPEAKER_00:I want to be the least failure. The lead player. Yeah. I felt better than the rest of you.
SPEAKER_06:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:One of the fears that I had before stopping drinking was um that I wouldn't be funny. I really had that fear. I really had a fear that people wouldn't wouldn't really like me. I really had a fear that uh my social circle would um would close off. And you know, that was all about and fear is always about the about the future, as you said. And none of that was true. And what's actually happened since you know, getting sober, and I was what maybe I'd just call a functioning alcoholic. You know, I wasn't falling down during the day, but man a cocktail alright, hit it hard until time to go to bed and get up and go back and work and function during business. And but what really has happened is that uh is actually all that work and effort of trying to keep it under control is gone. And all I have to do is like really be funny, really be with people. Um, as I've said before, I feel I feel a sense of relationship with all of you on the call, and it's because we're here, we're it's a I say it's a it's it's a relationship based on God. All of us are here with whatever our interpretations are. And actually, one of the great the great gift is I was always faithful, but really now I'm I really get my faith that in true faith is really trust in in God, which has really given me sobriety. So um it just the yeah, it's a one it's it's a wonderful circle, and it just keeps uh keeps opening. And I'm one of those old guys, Roger. I'm right there with you. Yeah, and I'm just helping us.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks, Tom. You know, the other thing this is gonna highlight the book in the inventory talks about basic instincts, social security and sex. So you're gonna find out by this examination what your Achilles heel is. I'm really hung up on what people think of me. I'm really hung up on wanting to be a leader, not a participant. I'm really hung up on the money thing because I've got an idea that if I get enough money, I'll be safe. So anything that comes along that threatens the appearance that it might interrupt my economic flow, that's a problem. Because I think I'm driving the bus and I'm not. So, and the sex is another thing. What's the sex about? The sex is about affirmation. Sometimes it's about control, power. Sometimes it's because I feel so damn worthless that if I can get you to do my bidding here, um, and we'll agree on sharing each other's fantasy, um, then I'll be okay. You know, when I when I took apart my sex inventory, I had a pretty ugly history as women, as far as being usurious, not being violent or abusive, but just amusing you. And I thought I had a sex problem, but when I took that about all apart, it was all about the social instinct because I had created a philosophy to protect myself that didn't allow me to have any serious, deep relationship with anybody, because that was my protection, so you can't hurt me. So I'd find you and I'd explain to you, and you'd explain to me. We're just this is just about the physical aspect of this. There's gotta be no wedding, no ticket fence, no none of that. And when I took it apart, and it all kept coming back to the social instinct. Am I good enough? Do you love me now? Can I fit in? Am I acceptable? You know, we're wired for that community. We're wired to bond with each other, but it's gotta be on the right principle. And so there were none. The principle was I'm just so much running from myself here. This is this the relationship with the women was no different than the booze or the drugs. I just needed some anesthetic, I just needed someone to say one night, yeah, you're good enough. Yeah, you're good. I like you, you're fine, whatever. You know, you got me to take off my clothes. Whatever. But you've got to know. You know, I'm getting when I'm going through the day and I get uncomfortable, I look at what is the threat, what appears to be threatened? My security, money, property, prestige, right? Or relationship, over dependent, over-controlling, or the social instinct. Want to belong, want to be accepted, want to be praised, want to want to connect. But I can't connect on the basis of my selfishness. Because I created this this I forget the word. I'm sorry, I'm tired. Facade. Which is a mask. It's a Greek word for mask. And that is what's going to protect me from getting hurt anymore. And that becomes so you can't get at me, you can't hurt me, you can't, you can't affect me. But what it does is it creates from behind that wall to the world. I look really intense, I look very creative, I look like I know what's going on, I look like a guy in control, I'm creative, I'm an artist. Okay, fine. Inside, I'm a scared little boy, and that facade becomes my prison because I'm desperate. We're designed for connection, I'm designed for finding someone or something or some group that I can be a part of. Community. When you study all the spiritual stuff, they all say the same thing. You need to do this in community. Because in community, we have accountability. I tell you what's going on, you tell me what's going on. There's no judgment. There might be some shared experience that's helpful, there might not be, but you do it in community. That's what you mean. You mean it? You're creating a community, a safe place to bring your true self. Just put your toe in the water a little bit. See if it works, right? Who else?
SPEAKER_09:I'm Rhonda. I'm an alcoholic addict.
SPEAKER_02:Hi, Rhonda.
SPEAKER_09:Hi.
SPEAKER_02:Where are you coming in from?
SPEAKER_09:Uh right now I'm in Dilworth, Minnesota. Hmm. Where's that? Um, it's just east of Moorhead, Minnesota, Fargo Moorhead area. The Frostland, you know. Yeah. Uh I've heard you speak many times. I I at one time had 20 years of sobriety. I think I heard you speak at Rule 62 a few times. And um, I always just enjoyed how you would start, and there was supposed to be a topic, and you would just go and go and go, and the hour would be up, and you're like, and so it is. You would just not even stay on topic. Anyway, uh, right around 2020, I relapsed after 20 some years. There's a lot of stuff going on in 2020 that I started building up walls between uh me and AA um because of what was going on in the world and people who with whom I had respected, suddenly I see online maybe some them voicing some opinions that are unpalatable and don't seem to align with the principles of the program. And so I took that and I made it AA as a whole. It was a good excuse. I think I was probably relapsing for years before that, but I just like I need a drink. I need a freaking drink. And I was a drug addict before I sobered up and got those 20 years. Drugs was the major thing for me. But after 20 years, all my dealers were either dead in jail or not sober themselves.
SPEAKER_02:I gotta, I gotta get whole new connections.
SPEAKER_09:So I went to the liquor store. Yeah, COVID. So I just went to the liquor store and um didn't take long for that to just have me by the throat. And I was out for five years. Now I've got eight months strung together. And um, thank you. Uh but fear, I mean, you're talking about fear tonight. Uh uh, I'm just learning to sit with the fear and identify it. It's like cold in my stomach, and I get a kind of tightness in my back, and there's all these fears. Um my marriage dissolved when I was drinking, and for my first time in my adult life, I'm alone. And um I want to run, I want to run to a relationship, of course. And so that's what I did. And it's so funny you're talking about it because of course it didn't work, you know. Duh. It can't work.
SPEAKER_01:I'm mentally ill, it can't work. And I think you're looking at it. If you're hooking up with me, you gotta be at least as crazy as me. Correct, sir. I can't believe it didn't work.
SPEAKER_09:Yeah. So now this fear is someone else is gonna get the version of him I wanted. That's that's one fear. Another fear is um, geez, if I died, it would be a couple days before somebody notices, you know. My uh my kids are all grown, they don't check on me every day. So I got like that fear, the fear that, you know, somebody else is gonna get the version of that guy I wanted, you know, and it was abusive. He was very abusive. And then there's um just this low self-esteem, shame, shame, shame. Um, yeah, but I thought, you know, here's how I explain to myself. Yeah, I'm a newcomer, but I have 20 years of, I mean, you newcomer with 20 years of experience, so that relationship rule doesn't apply to me, you know, and it it really should have. I bought a plant. I just recently bought the plant and kind of do the plant thing um where I try to make the plant live for a year. And at the same time, I have a sponsor, I'm going to meetings and gonna work the steps. I've worked the steps probably eight times, like um systematically in those 20 years. So I'll work them again and I hope something different happens. I don't have a relationship with God. I've I turn my will over to him every day and I ask for his strength to stay sober, but relationship with him. No, uh I don't trust him. What does that mean? I don't trust God, I believe in God, but I don't trust you. So I don't know. That's fear too, I suppose. I'm afraid of getting drop kicked.
SPEAKER_02:That's all I the other the other piece of that the beast uses you had 20 years and you blew it, and it's gonna keep reminding me of that until I don't attach to it. Because I had just what you said, I had 20 years. I got 20 years of experience. I know I can live without the substance, but I have to now reverse engineer this and find out where the hell I got off track. Because the key in this thing, once you go, once you navigate the first nine exercises, the key to this is 10, 11, and 12. It's where I do my daily living. It's when everything comes into the present tense. Today I will continue to watch for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear. Today, I will continue to pray and meditate, which is a seeking process. Because I don't believe any shit's gonna work. And today I have something now that I can practice with all the normal people we call normal, the non, the non, the non just the crazy people, right? And I can I have something to share. I have something to share. So the relapse is is the lesson plan. I gotta figure out what I did or what I didn't do, what I stopped doing, you know, and this is I'm not I'm not rubbing your nose and anything, Rhonda, but I don't ever stop doing the steps. Because all of the first nine are contained in 10, 11, and 12. And that's the practice, the daily practice that I have to develop. I have to turn it into a habit. And it takes practice. The more you practice it, the more you progress you make, the less you practice it, the more vulnerable you are to the mistaken thoughts and ideas. So, um, example, when I did my first real four step, real one, I did two fake ones and two fake fifth steps, and I did the third one, and I got over the hump. And that started something that I didn't know had started, and I had done all kinds of deflections and and artificial examples. So, what I was what I was going with is I never did another fourth and fifth step. Because what happened from that is I got thrown into the daily practice, and for some reason I gave myself to it, and it became the lesson plan. So if I'm cleaning up my thinking 10, my thinking and my actions with the human, the three-dimensional plane, and I'm making an effort to create a connection with this higher plane, God, mystery, big wall-li, whatever you call it, then I'm in the game. Because I can't deal with things that I'm powerless over. That's one of the things the beast does to us. You're afraid, you better work on that. No, you better let go of it and work on some aspect of your faith or what you believe. Tolerance, patience, forgiveness, right? So that's why they call it a practice. You have to build a habit. And then once you build the habit and you start making some progress, you have to keep doing it, and it's gonna it's gonna pull you in deeper. Because what I did last year is starting to not work so well. Those prayers, those books I'm reading, then find other prayers in other books. A really good exercise that take all our famous prayers, the serenity prayer, the third step, prayer, the seventh step prayer, all that stuff, and write it, write out your own version because it becomes a meditation, right? It's not a mystery, it's a process, right? The miracle is that we even get here. The miracle is that you got eight months. Everyone in this meeting had eight months once. That's the miracle because you're supposed to be dead. All of us are supposed to be dead, and we're not. That's miraculous. The miracle is that we even get here, and then slowly our pain opens us up to the solution. Two disciplinarians, pain and love, and we generally go with the pain option until we grow enough to understand I don't have to I don't have to suffer. It's an option, but I don't have to do it. Who else? Thank you.
SPEAKER_04:Just real quick, share alcoholic. Um this is a really good topic. Fear is oofta. And the reason I say that is because I'm dealing with some fear right now. Um with my daughter, she's going to have a baby. And a couple years ago, she lost a baby. So the fear that I have is, oh my gosh, you know, uh it's like Tom said about future, fear is the future. And that's where my brain goes. It's like, okay, is this gonna happen again? What if this happens again? You know, and and and I know how crazy I got when my daughter lost her baby. I it was horrible. And so um dealing with uh her having this baby, I'm I, you know, I just I just get filled full of that fear of what ifs, and we should have what ifs. I know that's the ego, the beast, whatever, but it's hard for me to let go of that because of how devast how painful that was. So this is so fear, I mean, there's a lot of good um um things that you uh talked about that will help me. Because it's the let's like you said, fear slowly creeps in. Oh man, it closed it goes fast for me. It's right there right now. Um, and then if I don't have my a good, if I let down on my spiritual practice, then I get consumed with this fear. And it has happened to me. And I'm just glad that I have a lot of people that I can talk to and help me uh see that God or my higher power can because I have the trust thing too. When this when this whole ordeal happened, I I lost trust. Well, that's ridiculous because there's no I wouldn't be sitting here today if I didn't trust my higher power. Um so um yeah. I just wanted to get that out and share that with you. Thanks.
SPEAKER_02:So what is the beast doing here? The beast is saying, Cheryl, you remember how awful that and tragic that was? And as soon as you go there, it's not in the past, it's right here in the present. The past is dead, the future hasn't happened. And the beast uses those two things to control us. And the mechanism is the what ifs, which is fear. What if I'm not safe? What if this bad thing happens again? Well, it doesn't say, don't worry about it. You might get run over by a car tomorrow, and you'll never know how it turned out. You know, it doesn't do that. That's a possibility, too. Shit. It's hard stuff, and you're doing the right thing. Talk to people, talk to people who've been through it, talk to people, how ask them how they're activating their faith. And the trick is to remember all those what ifs and the the those memories, that's all made up. That's the beast taking events and distorting them and then projecting in the future. What are you gonna do if this happens again? Right? What what about why doesn't the imagination go, it's gonna be so great, I'm gonna celebrate that baby, I'm gonna celebrate my daughter, I'm gonna be the best damn grandma in the world, right? Why not go there? Because that's not the natural default. It takes no energy to go, I'm so screwed. What if, what if, what if, what if? It takes much more energy to say, I don't want to be in this place, and so I'm gonna have to ratchet it up. What am I grateful for? What are my prayers looking like? What that's what I gotta ratchet up. Well, great gratitudes are great lists, they work good. Things I'm grateful for. And is it here's another question. When those what ifs pop in, just ask, is it true? The answer is always no, because fear is a damn liar. Fear is a liar, and when it's not lying, it's distorting. It's getting ready to lie, it's giving you the nightmare of the past, or it's giving you the fear that you're not gonna live through it. Who else? Thank you. Keep me posted on that way.
SPEAKER_08:This is a addict Alan. Uh yeah, Z is my nickname. Sorry, I forgot to change it for the other this meeting. Uh the thing that re that I think of when I think of fear, uh, especially like today, I was at the office and I got notification that I got uh chosen to go on a work trip. And it and my first thing was, oh my god, I gotta figure out my mask, I gotta go get good new clothes, I gotta impress these people because I'm just a kid from the streets, you know, and they had put out um an email talking about how if you didn't feel safe walking the streets to your car, they would have an escort and you could be escorted by a security officer. And my person was I ran those streets. I know how to walk those streets. I take I take my shoes off and I put my flip-flops on, I put my hoodie over my work clothes, I get my backpack, and I put put on my mask and I walk. Of course, I'm afraid of walking down the street because I walk past all the people that are doing the things that I can't do anymore or I don't want to do anymore, you know, that I've got um, you know, eight months clean on, and you know, that uh things that I didn't know that I would be uh able to. And you know, and so that fear just creeps in and it creeps in, and you're like, but I'm not afraid, but you really are afraid, and you're trying to talk yourself out of it. And the first thing, one of the not the first thing thing, one of the things that I thought about um when you were talking about fear and fear of the future and fear of the past is that um we only die once. We live every day, and we get to live anew every single day. And I just kind of try to keep remembering that because it's easy to go out and die if that's what you want, but it's hard to live an honest and true and peaceful life every single day. And so that's what I try to remind myself of. Thank you with that'll pass.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks, thanks so much. Those things you were talking about, I'm I'm walking the streets and I'm seeing people doing what I used to do. That's not scary, that's a gift. Look at how grateful I am not to be doing that anymore. Not to be running and gunning and conning and ripping people off and just struggling to get the next fix, the next whatever, right? Freedom. Freedom. So then those memories become growth tools. Growth tools to grow by. Not to scare you, to show you. Hey, look how far you've been brought. Who else? Thanks, Jane. Who else?
SPEAKER_05:I'm Kirsten alcoholic, and this is I just have one thing to say because this death thing keeps coming up, like we should all be dead. Roger says that a lot, and I didn't used to really buy into that because I mean it is a miracle because I was absolutely a drinker all day long, every day, morning, and night drinker on my way to the morgue, but I didn't fear that as I should have, you know, with all the justification rationalization and oh, not me, that couldn't be me. And then I heard recently this idea, kind of like what Z was talking about. It's the suit, it's the um suicide and stalmic plan, you know, this this continuous, you know, taking of my own life one drink at a time. And I never took that, I didn't fear that in a healthy way at all. I just kept thinking, no, not me, not me. I'm not that bad, blah, blah, blah, justification. Anyway, this whole talk about fear. Um, it was just like it's the things I should have feared when I was using that I wish I had feared and taken seriously. But I just was like, not me. You know, yeah, I I've been in the emergency room six times and detox and treatment, and but not me. I'm not that sick. Anyway, that's all. I just wanted to say the suicide installment plan because if that's not that, I can wrap my brain around. That's exactly what it is when we're in active alcoholism, active using. It's exactly what it is. And anyway, I just wanted to share that. And uh with that, I'll pass. Thanks, you guys, for being here.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. You know, um, you were talking about suicide. About 18 months into my uh Abstinence. I put a gun in my mouth. Now, before that, before I got sober in 78 and somewhere around 77, I was in a doctor's office and he told me if I kept doing what I was doing the way I was doing it and the quantities I was doing, I'd be dead in 12 to 18 months. And I went back to drink to not wake up. Because I'd wanted to die. And then when I ended up in the meetings, after 18 months of doing one step and just bitching and arguing about everything else, I put a gun in my mouth. And it took a couple years to figure out what it was. It wasn't that I wanted to die. It was that I was afraid to live. Because it's all when you're newly sober, it's all question marks. How am I going to do this? How am I going to do this? You don't have to worry about how you're going to do it. It's going to get done if you give yourself to it. That's the offering in the third step, right? It's a process. Yeah. What a great deal. So when you leave here, tell your friends we're back online to come back. Got to rebuild this though. Thanks for showing up. And let's close with the serenity for unmute yourselves, please. Ronnie, you get back here.
SPEAKER_01:I will.
SPEAKER_02:Be on time.
SPEAKER_01:All right, you ready? Gone?
SPEAKER_02:Gone. To accept the things I cannot change. You can change the things that I can. All right. Thanks.
SPEAKER_04:Thanks, brother. Thanks, everybody.
SPEAKER_05:Goodbye, everybody. Bye-bye for now.