#85 The Power of Story

We all have a story, story is how we identify - through the challenges, the successes. Our failures are our biggest, richest teachers. How did you do it? How did you get through it? How did you survive that? Where did it take you? There is a great group discussion with this as well. You are not alone... The Gathering is now in 49 countries and 697 cities, thank you for your support, we Gather together!

Chapters

• 0:00 Roger's Sobriety Journey Reflections
• 6:40 The Power of Shared Stories
• 15:10 Developing a Personal Concept of God
• 22:31 Life Lessons From Unexpected Teachers
• 31:14 Honesty, Compassion and Truth
• 39:21 Personal Sharing: Stories of Hope
• 50:50 The Language of the Heart
• 58:27 Closing Reflections on Spiritual Growth

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Roger, good to be with you. My sobriety date is October 11th 1978 and it's coming up. If I live a couple more weeks I'm going to make it and I get reflective right before my birthday. I don't think about it much at all. Last weekend was the Duluth roundup. I always do a sobriety count there. I've got a bunch of friends up there because I've been going up there for 40 years and the group is getting smaller. But they do a countdown.

Speaker 1: 0:41

Then I start thinking oh yeah, I'm coming up on my birthday and what I want to talk about is the power of story, because every one of us has heard something or read something that just tweaked the trajectory a little bit. So we have a bunch of different kinds of stories. We have made-up stories. The beast generates stories about not being enough or not being safe. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about you have a story. Every one of us has a story. We've lived a life, we have things that we've gone through and to this date we've survived everything that's been thrown at us right. So what happens in our fellowships is we share details about our life. So when you share something, you go oh yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2: 1:33

I recognize that.

Speaker 1: 1:34

I recognize that. What do you recognize? The truth? The truth in what he or she said. Maybe not the whole thing, maybe not the whole story, but a piece of it, an experience of it.

Speaker 1: 1:47

You know, I had when I, on occasions when I share my story, if I talk about certain things, I always get people coming up to me afterwards wanting to know how, like, how did you solve your back taxes? You know, when I sobered up, I hadn't filed taxes federal estate in five years. When I finally, when I finally filed them, it had been 10 years. I was five years sober when I finally faced that music. How did you deal with that? And they come up and I can tell them how to deal with it, I can tell them what not to do and I can tell them what works. Same thing with, uh, the warrants. You get a lot of warrants. How did you get out of those? You know? Well then we don't know what it means, how we did that. Finances. Same thing. And so, as we share what, we share our successes, we share our challenges, we share our struggles, and when I can share a struggle that I went through, that you're going through right now and you hear that there's a way through this or a way out of that that instills a little bit of hope and it changes your awareness and the way you're looking at the perceived problem.

Speaker 1: 3:03

So when you look at the big book, all it is is a story. It's a composite story of how all the original people that started this thing, what their experience was, what their experience was, what the struggle was I've got to struggle with powerlessness. I've got to struggle with a higher power idea. I've got to struggle with management. I've got to struggle with making a decision. I don't have a concept. I do have a concept. I just don't have a concept that's serviceable. That's one of those things. You know, I came here with the idea, my concept of a God, of an eight-year-old, and I had long since decided that that was that God thing was completely out the door. No problem, we're not even going to go there, we're not even going to consider that. So when I sobered up, when I was 30, I and you talked about God. That's what I heard in my head, that little boy's version of God, and they said well, no, no, no. We've all had that problem. And the question is not what do you believe? The question is what you believe in. Does it serve you or is it serviceable? And so they say you get your own concept, don't worry about what Paul's doing or what Maya's doing or what Tom's doing. You get your own concept, paul's doing or what Maya's doing or what Tom's doing. You get your own concept and you start it's just a starting point to grow towards it Right.

Speaker 1: 4:29

And so I think back, because I've had a not a typical history with sponsorship, but I've had a lot, of, a lot of poignant moments with people over the years. So there's the first five years I sponsored myself, which is not a good idea. But what really, in retrospect, what I did was I let the book sponsor me, which was exactly what its purpose was when they published it. It was to get it out to people who couldn't go to meetings because there were only three meetings in the world, was to get it out to people who couldn't go to meetings because there were only three meetings in the world, and so they want to see can we transmit this in print form? And I didn't know that's what I was doing at the time. I said, retrospect, that's what I was doing, but I challenged, I challenged. I was challenged by my ideas, my closed-mindedness, my obstinacy, and every once in a while, you know, I'd meet someone and have a conversation. In the moment it seems insignificant, but in retrospect it wasn't insignificant at all. But in my experience I didn't have the wild power awakening. I had the educational variety, so I had to have the wow pow awakening. I had the educational variety, so I had to have a lot of teachers.

Speaker 1: 5:48

And I've told you this story before, but it's a perfect example. I'm at the coffee break at the meeting. I went to a men's step at a big book meeting and one of the old guys comes up to me and says hey, how you doing kid? And I go well, you want to know the truth. You seem to be really big on this rigorous honesty stuff. And so I yeah, that'd be refreshing. So I get my little pout going and I get my quiver in my voice. Well, I'm depressed and I have low self-esteem. And he goes you're an asshole. That should change. When I heard that I didn't think oh, thank you God. I thought you're dead on the break. They're going to find your body in the parking lot. And the second thought was good point, because that slap in the face jarred me just for a moment to reflect. What he's saying is you haven't changed and that should change if you're doing this program or recovery that we're trying to teach you about.

Speaker 1: 6:50

So a lot of my teachers were nonverbal. You know you can transmit stuff without words in your actions. You know there's an expression they taught me when I came in and said people are watching, so just remember. They used to say it this way you're, you may be the only example of the big book anyone sees, so buff it up a little bit, right, and uh, I was gonna say sorry, I'm really tired. So all those little things were little things. They were little course corrections Three degrees, one degree one.

Speaker 1: 7:36

Oh, this way, when I look back on it with a timeline, I can see it almost looked like it was laid out as a plan, but when I'm in it I can't see it. You can't see the change you're going through now. You can feel the resistance or the attraction of it, but you don't know what it really means in real time, until later you look back oh, that's what that was about. Look at your four-step. I couldn't learn anything from it. I couldn't learn anything from it. I couldn't learn anything from it, but all the data was right there, and then I had someone help me interpret it. And the beauty of that inventory is when you write it out on a piece of paper, it becomes an object.

Speaker 1: 8:18

Now, as I look down on my piece of paper and the desktop, I can see my history in a different light, from a different angle. I'm not in it, I'm observing it right, and I go oh, the first aha I had with that was there's only one common denominator in all these lists. It's me, and I don't want that to be true, because I'm really dedicated to blaming and being a victim. And all this is pointing us to you need to be responsible for yourself. What you think, what you say, what you do. It's on you. No one's making you anyway. This is how you've been shaped. This is how you've been shaped by your reactions.

Speaker 1: 8:59

And now we're in a place where we're learning how to make rational choices, conscious choices. Who do you want to be in this situation? Who do you want to be Just talking to a guy tonight about this? You know he thinks he's got an important business meeting coming up and he's got a lot of questions in the air. So you got who you want to be, and let's just go through it that way. You want to be a man of integrity, you want to be honest, you want to be clear, fine, and there's too many variables to be able to control it and you have no power to control it anyway. So we're back to. The only power you have is the power of choice, your attitude. So here's another one. One of my mentors from Colorado was a guy and he gave me a definition of honesty. Honesty was a big problem for me. Actually, honesty wasn't. Dishonesty was Because I was an inherent liar. I just lied all the time. And he said honesty is the absence of any intention to deceive. Honesty without compassion is brutality.

Speaker 1: 10:15

And I heard that you know, when you're listening to a talk or you're in a meeting or you're reading a book and you're nodding along, that's identification, and that means you've tripped a truth out here. You've tripped a truth on the outside that is resident on the inside. So what I'm saying is I can't recognize a truth that is not resident in me. I might not know it, but oh, here's one the law of karma. You know what was that? You reap what you sow. Oh, you treat people a way and you're going to be treated that way, not necessarily by them, but by the world. It's a law of consciousness. It's the way it works. I don't know that. Well then you look at your inventory stuff and you say well, there seems to be some evidence of that. I wonder if I could put out some different energy, if I get different results. So back to the honesty definition. There are times when dishonesty, apparently, is acceptable. So what happens when my little boy brings a scribble drawing home from kindergarten, first grade? I don't look at this and I go Zach, did you show this to anyone? Did anyone see this? We got to get you some art lessons, composition, color, all kinds of? No, you don't. You tape it on the refrigerator and you praise him. You're not praising him for being a great artist. You're praising him for experimenting with his imagination. So is that dishonest? It's compassionate. It's compassionate, it's loving. I'm not deceiving him, I'm just supporting the essence of what he's doing. You know, I want to encourage you to draw outside the lines. I want to encourage you to play with colors and shapes. I want to encourage you to try stuff you've never tried before. So you go, yay, right. Different thing when your partner looks at you and says did these jeans make my ass look big? Oh no, honey, I love the shape of your bum. It's beautiful, right, it's beautiful, right, it's true. So we learn as we go. How do you know when it's not okay? You feel it, don't you? When you're doing something you're not supposed to be doing, you feel it. When you tell a lie, you know it's a lie. When you're making up a story that's not the truth, you know it's a lie. You're a hypocrite. I got nowhere to go with this because I don't have a group, I don't have a community, and so I tell it when I'm doing just great, fine, thanks, fine, thanks, fine, thanks you too, yeah, because what do you think of me if I tell you I'm struggling here? I'll tell a story of myself. This just happened yesterday. This is 46 years sober. Send this to New York.

Speaker 1: 13:39

So I had a bunch of sponsee meetings and I was running over to the post office because they had a special package I had to mail to Canada which is a whole bunch of customs crap and everything. And I had my paper roll done and I run in there. They close at 5. It's 5 to 5. I come in I say ooh, and there's no one in the lobby and I put my package down. I said we're closed. They said what do you mean? You're closed? He said we close at five. I said it's five to five, it's 4.55. That's not five. And I just went off like a little volcano and I'm going God damn it. And he looks at me. They just don't want to work. And he looks at me. He says you should come earlier. I said I'm here before closing. So when it says it opens at nine, is that 915? I just was an ass. I just went off.

Speaker 1: 14:29

So I had to go back today to get the package mailed and the people that I harassed weren't there. So the woman was working. I said you know there were two people closing last night. If you see them, tell them. The asshole that was in here last night at closing came in to apologize.

Speaker 1: 14:47

It's life, it's life. But you know I'm not walking around feeling bad about it. I corrected it and it happens. It doesn't happen all the time, thank God. It used to be a lifestyle just walking through life with a machine gun, but not anymore. So our stories should, in a general way, show indicator evolution. If they don't indicate we're evolving, we're devolving. This should get better. Oftentimes it gets worse before it gets better.

Speaker 1: 15:26

When you think about when you began your sobriety you're just coming off that detox and you went to your first meeting you go, oh geez, this is it. This is my new life. I'm 30. When I got sober I was 30. I'm a rock and roll guy. I live in black leather and I'm in a meeting with a bunch of old farts. They're 60, 50, you know like what is this? A bunch of veterans. And, oh man, those guys saved my life. They saved my life because of the way they treated me, not because of what they said. They demonstrated tolerance, they demonstrated love. They didn't let me blow it up, but they did. Let me stay.

Speaker 1: 16:07

And then later on I found out things about them, and here's love in action. So there was a guy that was one of the founders of the group who was in a nursing home. He was a big time attorney in town. And one night they said hey, you want to go to the meeting before the meeting with us? I said what do you mean? They said, well, we go when we meet Jack over at the VA. He's over at the VA and we take a meeting to him. Oh no, that's cool. Okay, so I'm thinking I'm one of the boys I've been accepted in, so I go over there and these guys, every Wednesday before the meeting, go over to the VA and do a meeting with Jack and bring food, and I'm thinking that's really loving. You know, I wouldn't know that by looking at them, that this was what's in your heart, but when I see them doing it, demonstrating it, it's like, oh, these guys are coming from a place I didn't know existed. You know, because they showed me their demonstration, they showed me their behavior and it changed me, because that was love in action. You know, it's really easy.

Speaker 1: 17:15

I came in as a, as a very large cynical person and sarcastic as well, and so if you would have told me I was something like that, I would have said that's BS, People don't do that stuff. But they do do that stuff and you don't get medallions for it and you don't get parades for it and you don't get applause for it. But there's people doing nice things for people all over the place and then you start seeing the goodness in that. That's God in action, and I start connecting some dots that I didn't always connect in. You know, I came consensually.

Speaker 1: 17:56

I started out with this spontaneous detox, which I didn't know was the last drink I was going to have, and it was a phenomenon to me. I could observe it, but I had no idea what was going on and I was still in my playing days. So I'm working in bars every night. I'm around free booze, free drugs and available women, which is most of my problem and it had no attraction at all. It's talked about in the 10th step being placed in a position of neutrality, but I wasn't on my 10th step. That's grace and mercy. I was held because there was a plan for me that I didn't know about, and so that phenomenon didn't grow me, but it kept me my nose above the water. Metaphorically, it kept me alive long enough to get to the next jumping off point, which was the suicide attempt, because I wasn't going to do your steps, because of all the God stuff, excuse me.

Speaker 1: 19:00

So stories are critical me. So stories are critical, and every one of you has had someone talk to you or you've heard something or you've read something that touched you, that moved you, that shifted what you were doing. Just a little bit, just a little bit, and that's what I want to talk about. I want to hear your stories about what stories have impacted you and how did it come about and and when did you realize it, and that sort of thing. What's the power of story in your, in your lives? So turn it over to you. Your fans are waiting. So so that would that would be quiet. I'll go. I'm kirsten hi kirsten, so F would be quiet, I'll go.

Speaker 2: 19:47

I'm Kirsten.

Speaker 1: 19:49

Hi Kirsten.

Speaker 2: 19:54

As you were talking about, what stories did you hear that had a big impact. I, when I was newly in recovery, would attend this meeting every Friday night. It was an 8 o'clock meeting Friday night and in that meeting were real diverse people Um, you know, they were like full sleeve tattoos, bikers, a handful of those guys and, um, a millionaire and some people who did real blue collar jobs. There weren't really any, you know, like suburban moms, like me, volleyball moms. That was okay. One woman in that meeting. She had a real impact on me. She had 25 years or something, Maybe she had 20 in those days, but she told a story.

Speaker 2: 20:39

Well, first she said she got a medallion at some point and she said this is the coolest club there is and I'm like like, sign me up. I kind of loved that because it sort of gave me this like yeah, it really is awfully cool. I mean, I was starting to get the feels of of this. Uh, you know, we're all the same and we're here together and that magical, you know loving God presence in the rooms. By that time I'm like coolest club there is. Now I'm'm going to hang on to that. But one time she was telling a story about when she was still using so this was, you know, 20, when she was in her maybe 30s about how she broke her last bottle of wine at like 2 o'clock in the morning on her kitchen floor and she needed a drink so badly that she was wiping it up with a sponge and sucking the wine out of it. Glass shards and all right, because there was, you know, but that's how desperate she was and I'm just like I so relate to that. I mean, it's like I have been that desperate where, you know, like my last bottle of wine, the corks you, you know, jammed in there whatever, or just the ridiculousness and to the extent that I would go to find another drink at two o'clock in the morning, um, or just the hell of not having that drink that I'm absolutely positive I need at two o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 2: 22:00

And so this woman with her 20, I think, when I think that the last time I saw her she had at least 25 years, but she really made an impact on me and she was also one of the first people who ever said you're going to get this, you're going to get this. I know, you are, you know, and she had, she had a good, you know, program still at 27 years, always went to this meeting. I saw her at other meetings too and I was just like God, I, I don't believe you, but I hope you're right, and um, anyway, the story that literally came to mind, and then those other couple of moments with her. The story that came to mind that just gripped me was the one about the broken glass and sucking the wine out of a dirty kitchen sponge off the floor, because that was like wow, she can be. You know, I have been in that kind of desperation, that sure that I needed to keep drinking. And and here she was with her.

Speaker 2: 22:59

However many years in that moment 20, some, that was a huge moment for me, sitting in that Friday night meeting with all these other just a kaleidoscope of human beings. Anyway, with that I'm going to pass.

Speaker 1: 23:13

Thank you. Not only is it a cool club, it's one of the most expensive clubs you can get into. The prepay is pretty steep, right, but it's so impactful because you hear a story like that and you go how do you get from the kitchen floor and sucking wine and glass through a sponge to this woman? That's a quarter century away from that and that mystery is undeniable. When you're in the presence of that, either that person's a total liar or I'm standing in front of something that's totally inexplicable for where I'm coming from. Yeah, it's powerful stuff. Well, thanks.

Speaker 3: 24:05

Matea alcoholic.

Speaker 1: 24:07

Hi Matea.

Speaker 3: 24:08

Hi, I was just thinking about. There was a woman that came into the retreat when I was there and she was a younger lady, she was a mom, she had kids. And here I am 31 years old, celebrating my birthday in rehab, and this lovely woman walks in and she's like telling us her experience and driving drunk with her kids in the car, and I mean it was just like the identification for me in what she was saying. It was this whole idea of like holy cow, like I'm not alone. I did that stuff too and then to see her walk in and then be able to walk out of the retreat because I was there for a little bit longer Right, I wasn't going anywhere anytime soon but so she walks in in her jeans and I'm in sweats, and so I'm like doing this comparison. But as she's leaving, she stays and has lunch with us and I'm sitting with her and I'm asking her a couple more questions and just the hope that she gave me in how she found this peace and this serenity with this program, because when I was in treatment I wasn't sure if I was going to go home to a husband or if I'd be allowed to see my kids. I wasn't sure where that was going to, what the hell was going to happen. I had no idea, so I was just taking it day by day, and the fact that she was there with I don't remember how much sobriety she had, but her and her husband worked it out and they had another child after she was sober and doing well, and it just it gave me a lot of hope that it was possible for me and my husband to find a way to figure out what this looks like. What does sobriety look like in our life now? Because Boos was so heavily involved in so many things that we did. And how do I parent? How do I be a sober mom? I didn't know how to do that, but this woman gave me so much hope that it was possible.

Speaker 3: 26:03

Because while I was sitting there in my own thoughts, I'm like there's no way in hell, there's no way that that's going to be my story too, and I sit here today and I still have a husband, I have two kids. It would take an act of God for us to have another kid, which I'm totally fine with that not happening. We took a lot of precautions for that not to happen, and so I'm like we don't need to invite that into our world. Two's enough. The youngest one has five kids on his own. He's so hyper. But it was really comforting, especially that experience of other women coming into the center I was at sharing their story with us, and now I have the opportunity to do that at the retreat.

Speaker 3: 26:49

I share my story once a month because I want to give back what was given to me and there's been a moment where I mean the, the power of story.

Speaker 3: 26:54

I mean it's pretty cool. There's a moment not that long ago where a woman during my hour at the retreat um, she kind of interrupted me and she's like I just have to tell you that. You know I was going to this meeting here on Sunday nights I think it was last summer and you were up there and I was at the meeting with my sister and I elbowed her and told her that I want what she has and I won't ever forget that because nobody's ever wanted what my goofy ass had. So I was like this is really wild to hear that me just existing and being in a room and never talking to this human. There was some identification for her too, and so it's like I don't know, it's just this really beautiful, wholesome thing that we get to be a part of, and I just I love how much it shows that I'm not alone, and neither are any of you, and I think that's really lovely. And with that I'll pass.

Speaker 1: 27:51

Thanks. You know we talk about what we're describing here as the language of the heart. What is sent, what is given from the heart, can be received by the heart. So I'm sitting in a room and I hear something, inspires in spirit in me, wakes up and goes. I get that, I resonate to that right and that's going on all the time. We're just often not available to it because we're distracted by the noise, but that's a perfect example that people are watching, and I hope no one was watching at the post office yesterday, but you know it was an empty lobby. I think I'm safe. But it's not about being perfect, it's about being better. I just need to be a little better today than I was yesterday, and we have a really nice structure of these steps that take us on that journey. If you want to use that term adventure. If we adhere to it, it'll take us somewhere that we can't imagine is even available to us. That's great. Thanks, matea.

Speaker 4: 29:07

Who else can't imagine is even available to us. That's great. Thanks, matea. Who else? Hi, roger and everybody. This is Linda. Hi, linda. How are you? Alan Onik and everything else.

Speaker 4: 29:24

The story that's really in my mind tonight was when I left. My first husband and I had three kids and a station wagon and a hundred bucks. So I went to my mom and dad's, of course, because you know, if it weren't for moms and dads, a lot of us alcoholics would be dead. So on Wednesdays at noon I could go to this meeting, and at that meeting there was me yeah, I was about 32 at the time and there's a little old grandma named Charlotte who was addicted to drugs and I'm like you're a drug addict. She did not look like anything. I thought she looked like because I was just a pure alcoholic, right Whatever. I just didn't ever have the money to get into drugs. But anyhow, and there was this couple there too, sharon and Doug, and I'm sure they've all passed on now.

Speaker 4: 30:23

I was in Brookings, south Dakota, and the first thing they said to me was we will love you until you learn to love yourself. I had no idea what that was, even about loving myself. I didn't know how to love them. I didn't know how to love my kids, I didn't even know how to take care of them a lot of the times, but I had just gotten sober and, um, I liked what you said earlier, roger, about that.

Speaker 4: 30:52

They demonstrated tolerance, they showed me love in action. They, they let me stay, even though I came in there probably most every week whining, whining, you know, because life was so hard, you know, and I was a victim and I wanted to blame everybody else if I could. But they made, they brought me up high enough so I could look at myself without self-condemnation. Because one of the guys told me one time that being self-centered isn't only thinking that you're all there is grandiose, you know, it's also thinking that you're the lowest, worst human being on earth is also being totally self-centered. And I was like, wow, you know, everything they said to me at first was just mind boggling to me. Me, I had never heard words like that or been treated like that and that, and that's how they did save my life.

Speaker 4: 31:53

What was, by the way they treated me? And, by the way, also my first sponsor said why don't you go out and drink again? You're, and then you, all you do is whine about the meetings. Why don't you just go out and drink again? And I was just like, ah no, I won't come back and I'll die. You know, because inside my gut, in my heart, I knew, I knew that I needed to be there and I needed to do the work and I needed to do the steps. But why was it so hard?

Speaker 4: 32:23

But anyways, now know, looking back on that, it was a challenge to go to college and have three kids and trying to get sober, I didn't go to treatment, I didn't have any money and I don't know if they even sent you to treatment back then. Maybe they did, I don't know. I didn't go. I didn't even know I was detoxing. I had't go, I didn't even know I was detoxing. I had no clue. And somebody kept talking to me about it all the time. They're like you know, you got a detox for a month for every year you drank. And I'm like, yes, so what? You know? Like I see now she was saying to me that you are detoxing, you know.

Speaker 4: 33:08

But anyways, somehow, somehow I got through that and stayed, because one of the guys in the meeting, he's like you're not gonna make it. He just said that every freaking time and I said I'll show you, and that's maybe why you said it too. You know, I was like I'll show you. Oh yeah, here I am, thirty seven years later, where are you? I have no idea where the guy ended up, but that was part of my program back then and I had a badass sponsor.

Speaker 4: 33:41

Wow, I loved her. We met at the student union. We'd actually buy me a glass of chocolate milk, you know, and she'd say you know, chocolate's a substitute for alcohol. I loved her because she took me to a meeting one night. We went together, I should say, and we got in there and we were the only two women in the meeting. It wasn't a big meeting because we're in South Dakota, but there's probably 12 people around the table. Same guy that said I wouldn't make it. He says gal, dang it. We were going to have a good meeting with all men. And then you two women showed up, my sponsor. She banged her fist on the table and she says fuck you, I got a newcomer with me and we are coming to this meeting, and she said. Then she looked at me and she says sit down. And I'm like, yes, I sit down.

Speaker 4: 34:39

It was kind of fun in a way, looking back at it now, because I was like timid, like a little mouse. Hard to believe now I know, but I was just timid. I didn't know how was I going to make it. I was a soccer mom, I was a football mom. How am I going to make it in this room full of men, you know?

Speaker 4: 34:59

Well, one day at a time, one day at a time and they tolerated me I learned I can tolerate them. They have a right to say whatever they want to say and they let me say what I want to say and by doing that together we got better through, you know, through the years, because you're not alone and it was just one baby step at a time. I can only see it looking backwards now, at the time, just when you're in the middle of all that stuff and you're thinking, okay, I gotta get something to supper on the table. What's that gonna be, you know? And then I'd call my sponsor and she'd say have you done the dishes yet? No, well, go back and do the dishes, and if you sit, feel the same way, call me back. Well, I didn't feel the same way after I did the dishes. That little stuff taught me to be responsible for myself. So I'm just really grateful to be here tonight, and that's what I've got to share.

Speaker 1: 36:00

Thanks, linda. You know I was thinking while you were talking about that. I listen to a lot of speakers, tapes and stuff. I still do but there were guys that would. There was a guy, hank Johnson, and he was talking. He was living in someone's garage and he was just a horrible drunk. He'd lost his family and his job and everything. And he said I was sitting on the edge of the bed in my pajamas and I didn't know if I was getting up or going to sleep. And I heard that and I went I'm linked to that right. And there was another. There's a car thief from california's name was norm alpey and he talked like this and he about every 15 seconds in his talking go, kid, if you want the deal, you got to do the deal and then go off on a tangent.

Speaker 2: 36:47

Then you go, you want the deal, you got to do the deal, and then you go off on a tangent.

Speaker 1: 36:49

Then you go, if you want the deal, you've got to do the deal. And I heard that stuff and it struck me as funny. But then the truth of it came in and it was just interesting. I was thinking about hope while we were talking and I was thinking about that line in Gnostic Deep down, every man, woman, child is a fundamental idea of God. Idea of God, hope is the seed of a new possibility. That truth is synonymous with God. Anyway, who else?

Speaker 5: 37:22

Hey, everybody Paul Alkalak, hey Paul, everybody paul alcoholic, hey paul. Um, so for me, the you know, on the on the story side of things, um, I also like to listen to speaker recordings, tapes, whatever we're calling them these days, and, um, one in particular that comes to mind is is the Chuck Chamberlain new pair of? New pair of glasses? It's all I mean, it's, it's. You know it's an older one, but I think listening to his story in regards to, uh what, you know how much he hated his life when he was drinking, and just the blame games that he played with, you know, his family and his wife, and just his transformation, is amazing. And you know, to me it is the language of the heart, it is and it was, and I think I can listen to that.

Speaker 5: 38:36

You know, it's a matter of sometimes, it's just a matter of a few degrees, that that we're able to shift. And you know, I, like I say, I've listened to a lot of speaker tapes. Early in sobriety, I was out on the road driving back and forth to Chicago and in and around the city of Chicago, and and that's that's really what kept me going was, you know, being on my own in hotels, which was my MO when I was drinking and just having those recordings to listen to when I wasn't able to go to a meeting. Um was huge and um definitely sticks with me and definitely you know. Again, shift a few degrees each each time you lift. Listen to one of those. That's all I got, thanks thanks, paul.

Speaker 1: 39:43

You know you're that that piece you just reminded me of. When I was new, my parents started this tape library and I'd go out and I'd say, oh man, what do you got? And they'd give me a shoebox full of cassette tapes and I was totally defensive and on guard in the meeting. I couldn't let any walls down at all. But I'd go home and sit in the empty house with my tape recorder and play that and it would just rip my heart open Because I'd identify and I'd go damn it, that's it, Damn it, that's it.

Speaker 1: 40:18

I can't quite reach that. It's so interesting how it comes to us, but it'll come. If you seek it it'll come. You have to stay in the game. Who else? So this is a process that keeps opening my mind and my heart, my mind and my heart. So when I started out for daily readers, I'd do things like 24 hours a day. I'd do AA books because I was an atheist right. 24 hours a day do AA books because I was an atheist right. And now my morning readings I've got In God's Care, I've got Emmett Fox, I've got Henry Nowen, I've got Thomas Keating and Richard Rohr, I've got five priests, because it opened my heart to the message. And the message is universal. It's about love. It's about love and compassion.

Speaker 1: 41:36

You were talking about Chuck Chamberlain. He went from what's in it for me to how can I help you? He's the guy that came up with uncover, discover, discard. I recorded him several times and he had kind kind of.

Speaker 1: 41:53

Some of you might remember walter brennan. He had a little, a little squeaky, hissy laugh and I was chuck, was doing the receiving line after his talk and it was right next to where I was doing the duplication. And this young lady came up to him and said Chuck, how can I get more spiritual? And he threw his head back and he laughed and he looked at her and he said, he put his face in his hands and he said oh honey, you're already spiritual as you're ever going to get. We just got to uncover and let it come out. And I heard that and I said, damn it, imagine the possibilities, imagine the possibilities. Imagine the possibilities.

Speaker 1: 42:33

There were hundreds of things like that. You know, I remember walking around when I was very loud about my one-step program and I'd walk up to these people that had 20, 30 years and they'd say how are you doing? I'd go fine, except for the spiritual part, which is the whole thing. And they'd look at me and go it's okay, just stick with it, rog. They didn't say get your head out of your butt, do some work. They didn't do any of that. They just said good for you, just hang in there, it'll come, it'll come. What are you going to do? Who else?

Speaker 6: 43:09

Hi, I'm Allie. I'm an alcoholic. Hi, allie, sorry. Yeah, I've been listening. I'm really enjoying the meeting. I have to laugh because it sounds kind of weird. But and maybe I've said it before but, Roger, I used to hike to your reading the big book just because I needed to film.

Speaker 1: 43:29

I hike along and it is a long series yeah, just me.

Speaker 6: 43:34

And then like when I say, it's like I know more about your story if you need to be reminded, um, which, but I also there's another folk um guy out here um, but, um, I need to and I listen to a lot of like um, of like Zen Buddhists and I need to have that positive background noise, or else I can, to keep that sort of hope alive. And so, and in terms of like a spiritual life, it took me two rehabs and something else to realize this is a spiritual program. It was just it's amazing how I could have missed that aspect of it. But through just sitting, you know it comes when it comes, and I do know that it's opened me up to the possibility or to, and the opportunity to better define what is keeping me going through all of this. And you know, maybe it's okay to hope or maybe it's okay to have faith in people, or maybe just some of these things that were just really hard because you just sort of was grown up to think that you got to work, you got to be ready for the worst, but anyway, but I do remember one of the strongest things I heard in a meeting for me was when a woman said that she has to pray. She prays for not only the faith or the willingness to, and desire to stay sober, because I knew I wanted to be sober, I guess, but I just I needed that internal like willingness to do what it takes, sort of um, keep doing it until, um, even when I didn't want to, or even when I intellectually knew, like you know, things go better when I'm not drinking. But I also needed that little grace or spiritual push to say, okay, well then, let's uh try to embrace that. And, um, the other thing, I think that, um, I heard, which was really, I think, what really clicked my head and I'm sorry, this is so garbage. I got dead lag.

Speaker 6: 45:49

But I, when I heard a woman share and she said, described her drinking as you know, she said I kept it together during the day, but then when I got home at 530, it was my time and I deserved a treat. I deserved, you know, something. For me it's like my reward for being getting through the day and that's exactly what how I felt of. And, yeah, that it wasn't um, yeah, that's what I, you know, at the end it's all I worked for. But anyway, but it was just to hear someone else say it wasn't you know, I was it. It just resonated with me because it was like, yeah, I'm doing everything you know right in quotations during the day and then I fall apart at night because I think I need something for me and AA has given me something bigger when I remember to do the work. But anyway, thanks for letting me share. I'm really enjoying this meeting. Thanks, kelly.

Speaker 1: 46:42

You know I was thinking when you're talking about demonstrations. There's a woman I was recording at the Montana State Roundup a hundred years ago and her name was Polly Polly Pistol. And that night she got up and she just heard, three hours before her talk started, that one of her sons, a grown adult, had stabbed himself in the stomach, trying to kill himself. And she got up and did a hell of a talk and I remember looking at that thinking I want some of that. Whatever she's got, I want some of that. She ended up being a lifelong friend. You know she still is today and the boy is fine, the man is fine, everything turned out okay. But to have that kind of trauma and chaos right before you go talk and be able to deliver an honest replication of what's going on, I mean I'm thinking that's powerful. That's powerful Watching people walk through stuff that you can't imagine yourself walking through. And I've said this a bunch, you guys know this, but I'll say it again for the people in all those cities.

Speaker 1: 48:02

My dad was one of those examples for me. He was my ebby. I grew up being his bartender and I watched Percocet and Scott take him out and I watched AA glue them back together and he never talked to me about recovery, he just demonstrated it. And the demonstration was so loud, no words were necessary, it was just like it was profound. And that was the thing that I had in the back of my head when I was early in AA, going to those meetings, thinking you were all lying and drinking between meetings. But I had his example and I knew that the truth of that that's powerful to be able to lay that down for your kid. I go listen to him talk and and it was just like freaking amazing, who else, tom, who's influenced you?

Speaker 7: 48:52

I know many well it's interesting that, yeah, you asked that question and also just thinking, a few minutes ago you mentioned love. I didn't know who you were, roger. Yeah, I didn't know who you were, roger for everybody. Yeah, I had no idea who Roger was. But my son went into rehab and then he got into the program. He was thrown out of his house and my nephew, andy, who's a friend of Rod, told Roger about that and Roger said have him come to the gathering, inviting me to the gathering, whatever that was back then several years ago. It's been a powerful, powerful influence and it was love that he invited me, and so that was one example where I allowed love to people I didn't even know. To love me and to let that in is a pretty big deal.

Speaker 7: 49:52

The second one is a dear friend of mine. He passed away. He was a Catholic priest. On his dying day I saw him about five, six hours before he passed away. We were talking and he said you're still staying sober and I said oh, yeah, yeah. And he said I'm so proud of you and I'm going to send the rope down from heaven. You just hang on to it. So here's a guy that's going to die and he's worried about me drinking, I'm like wow, that's really love. So both of those are profound examples.

Speaker 7: 50:32

And then also the gift of sobriety is not keeping myself so separate and apart that I can really enjoy being friends with all of you and really enjoy that we're all on the same path. I'm a little bit ahead, so really most important for me is making sure that I am close and right with God. You know I'm not planning on going on anytime soon, but that I'm right with God before I move on to the move on to eternity. So yeah, and then the other stuff were all bunches of stories that were all all me, me, me, me stories and I'm more aware of those and it's like that's really kind of pretty boring. But to hear your stories and to hear the love and the gift, the spirituality that's coming out of the program, is powerful. So thanks for asking the question. I'm always thinking about sharing something, but that's it. But I also love it when I just talk about experience. It's really been intent when I'm speaking with people just to say this is my experience and I'm finding they're very open to hearing that. So I'll pass.

Speaker 1: 51:50

It's much, yeah, agreed. It's much more ingratiating to say this is my experience, rather than this is what you need to do, right, oh, man. But here's another example of this. We do this in community. We got 10 people. It's a tiny community, but it doesn't matter if it's 10 or if it's 1,000.

Speaker 1: 52:14

One of the things you realize is I'm not alone, I'm not the only one. She's been through that. I'm just starting to go through it. Oh, he's been through that. I've just been starting. I've been through that. What did you do it? Oh, he's been through that. I've just been starting. I've been through that. Well, you have. What did you do? How did you do that? Oh, this is what I did, you know. And we just keep seeding each other's experience and it opens our hearts because this well, look at example of love we're. We're being kind to each other. No, no one's interrupting anyone. Everyone gets to say what they have to say. No one's getting criticized, ostracized, sent off the island. None of that stuff. Right, courtesy is a form of love, listening, compassion. I'm putting you ahead of me. Go ahead and say what you have to say. It's all here. It's all here. Anyone else?

Speaker 8: 53:09

Maya Hi.

Speaker 1: 53:10

Maya.

Speaker 8: 53:12

You know a couple of things. I was going to send you this picture I have in the inside of my big book. On the other books, page Reprecious Predator equals nasty bitch Roger B, nasty bitch Roger B. I have other quotes throughout my book from you but, um, which reminded me of you know, when I first got sober I got the privilege of getting to work a lot with you. You know I did the lodge program and, uh, thinking about demonstration, I had heard a lot of your story, I had, I trusted you, I and I remember just this feeling. I remember one time being in your office and, um, being worked up about something I don't know, just in a tizzy. You know I can remember that feeling because I still lost your sound.

Speaker 1: 54:07

Maya, we lost your sound. Can you hear me?

Speaker 8: 54:12

okay, I can't even remember what you said, but you know something along the lines of easy does it or it's okay. And I remember trusting you and being like, oh it is. You know, like I don't have to, I don't have to take all of this on right now.

Speaker 1: 54:28

I'm going to Lost your sound again.

Speaker 8: 54:36

But, no. Can you hear me now? Yeah, I don't know what the issue is. I'm sorry, I don't know what happened.

Speaker 1: 54:53

Let me ask the group Was her sound going out for all of you? Okay, it's on your end. Then there it went again.

Speaker 7: 55:11

Okay, do you know sign language?

Speaker 1: 55:15

I am so over it.

Speaker 8: 55:16

Can you hear me now?

Speaker 1: 55:17

Yeah.

Speaker 8: 55:18

I switched to my source. I think what's coming from my camera versus my computer, I don't know, but I was done, I think. Anyway, I was just basically saying you know that feeling I trusted you and I was able to like let go. I think that you know I remember leaving and just being like, huh, ok, you know, I don't have to take all that on, I don't need to worry about all of those things, I just need to do this thing right now in front of me, just need to do this thing right now in front of me.

Speaker 8: 55:54

And last thing, I remember a woman from when I first moved to Arizona, when she was talking about praying for her ex-husband, how she was. She, you know, had a lot of resentments against her ex-husband and she said my prayer started out as pray for that fucking asshole, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then it turned into pray for that fucking blah, blah, blah, and then no cuss words at all, and then she was able to pray with love. You know as to like the progression of prayer, you know, and that stuck with me too. You know just that communication with God is the important.

Speaker 1: 56:26

Even if it's profane, at least you're praying.

Speaker 8: 56:30

Yeah, yeah. That with God is the important, even if it's profane. At least you're praying. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I took away, but yeah, that's all I got.

Speaker 1: 56:40

Great meeting. Good, anyone else? You got anything, lindsay?

Speaker 6: 56:49

I have eight months today, bravo.

Speaker 2: 56:56

Excellent news, congrats.

Speaker 6: 56:58

Thank you. I'm still learning a lot and observing, and I'll talk sometime, I promise.

Speaker 1: 57:07

I didn't mean to put you on the spot, that's fine, okay. Well, obviously I promise I didn't mean to put you on the spot, that's fine. Well, obviously, I mean you're at 8 months, 8 years, 80 years. Obviously I heard something, because I'm not where I was, I'm now somewhere else and eventually that'll be on this adventure, on this path, little by little, incrementally getting a better mindset, a better attitude, a better set of actions, a better set of outcomes. And that's how my belief comes to me. You have to try this stuff before you can judge a result. And I was doing nothing, saying well, there's been no miracle here. You know where's my miracle? Well, you haven't done anything.

Speaker 1: 57:55

We have to present ourselves to be transformed and we do that through the steps, through the ideas. I'm powerless, my life's unmanageable because I'm the manager. I need to find new management. Step two I need to make a decision to go for it. Then I do four through nine and really four through seven. I've identified the problem. Now I know what my will in my life is and why I'm turning it over.

Speaker 1: 58:24

And six and seven says have you been offended by your own story? Yes, I have. Well, we're going to ask God to remove that because I have offended myself. I asked for the removal and I get some removed and some remains, because the stuff that remains In my experience has been the stuff I'm ready to learn from. The stuff that I was really powerless over and impaled on was removed, but the other stuff it stayed, and it stayed until I learned the lesson. And once you learn the lesson, when you really learn the lesson, the defect goes away and if it comes back, it comes back much, much weaker and you can just recognize it. No, not today, not today. So that's good. Should we be done? You want to be done? Anyone have anything else they want to say? Throw it down. Add Subtract Apologize.

Speaker 1: 59:26

Oh, I love it All right, let's close it with a serenity prayer, if you would. I'm mute. Okay, god, grant me the serenity.

Speaker 5: 59:47

Grant me the serenity.

Speaker 4: 59:49

Grant me the serenity Grant me the serenity God grant me this around you. Do everything I can to change the things I can and the one that is still to come thank you thank you, roger, and everybody thanks everyone.

Speaker 1: 1:00:03

I feel much better. I feel much better see you later.